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Genelec 1237A vs 8361A

Puddingbuks

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This poor single 15 inch sub has to keep up with all those other bass monsters? :) (Lfe)

Nice room, but I don’t get the positioning and number of ceiling speakers
 

Sancus

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This poor single 15 inch sub has to keep up with all those other bass monsters? :) (Lfe)

Nice room, but I don’t get the positioning and number of ceiling speakers

It's a standard Auro3D 11.1(or 7.1.4). 2L primarily produces Auro3D discs(though some have an Atmos track as well). Auro uses heights(up high, angled down 30 degrees) as opposed to Atmos tops(ceiling, pointing down).

As below.
5WBsS1R.png



You can use the two different layouts somewhat interchangeably in practice. Atmos movies sound fine on my Auro-style heights, for example. AVRs have two different settings for tops and heights.

E: Fixed image.

Considering the scalability, 8361 can be paired with w371 to form a more powerful system:)

Those are 8351Bs. 2L is smart enough to realize there's no real advantage to pairing 8361s with W371As :D

P.S. Genelec video on this setup and Morten Lindberg's recording/mixing technique(basically both at the same time!),
 
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Puddingbuks

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Always wondered if you can use such an auro3d setup for atmos:

1613113375791.png
 

HairyEars

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A bit late to the game, but here's my 2c.

The 8351B/8361B chart better than the 1237A, but the wooden boxes sound more delicious than the aluminum ones. The slit design on the coax produces a sound that I'm not fond of. I owe 8331a & 8341 & 1032C + quite a few subs. The 1032C is my favorite. Out of the SourceOne series, the 8331A sounds the best. Yes, I auditioned the bigger siblings, and the lows don't work for me. I can explain more, if anyone is interested,

If I had to move up to a 3-way, I'd get the 1238DF + a sub. I'd get the S360 over the 1032C only I the distance called for it; otherwise, the1032C sounds more balanced. All in all, an incredible value.
 
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Pearljam5000

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A bit late to the game, but here's my 2c.

The 8351B/8361B chart better than the 1237A, but the wooden boxes sound more delicious than the aluminum ones. The slit design on the coax produces a sound that I'm not fond of. I owe 8331a & 8341 & 1032C + quite a few subs. The 1032C is my favorite. Out of the SourceOne series, the 8331A sounds the best. Yes, I auditioned the bigger siblings, and the lows don't work for me. I can explain more, if anyone is interested,

If I had to move up to a 3-way, I'd get the 1238DF + a sub. I'd get the S360 over the 1032C only I the distance called for it; otherwise, the1032C sounds more balanced. All in all, an incredible value.
Please explain if possible, thanks
 

Hephaestus

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A bit late to the game, but here's my 2c.

The 8351B/8361B chart better than the 1237A, but the wooden boxes sound more delicious than the aluminum ones. The slit design on the coax produces a sound that I'm not fond of. I owe 8331a & 8341 & 1032C + quite a few subs. The 1032C is my favorite. Out of the SourceOne series, the 8331A sounds the best. Yes, I auditioned the bigger siblings, and the lows don't work for me. I can explain more, if anyone is interested,

If I had to move up to a 3-way, I'd get the 1238DF + a sub. I'd get the S360 over the 1032C only I the distance called for it; otherwise, the1032C sounds more balanced. All in all, an incredible value.

Research done by Toole tells us that people will prefer speaker with flat on axis and smooth off axis response.

8351B& 8361A have more linear on axis response and smoother directivity than the Genelec wooden box options mentioned above.

What comes to bass - yes large woofer area and different port tuning combined with large enclosure will give them edge. (1237 and up)
In the other hand S360 has the most accurate bass in time domain what comes to Genelec models.
 

Sancus

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Jeez. That's my dream setup. Having W371 for all channels is crazy. Bet it sounds fantastic. Needs more subwoofage, though, but that's the only nit I can pick.

Well it's used for mixing the type of music that 2L produces(orchestral, small band acoustic, choral, etc) so just the one 15" sub is probably plenty for that LFE channel and the W371s I'm sure have no trouble with the rest.
 

HairyEars

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Research done by Toole tells us that people will prefer speaker with flat on axis and smooth off axis response.

8351B& 8361A have more linear on axis response and smoother directivity than the Genelec wooden box options mentioned above.

What comes to bass - yes large woofer area and different port tuning combined with large enclosure will give them edge. (1237 and up)
In the other hand S360 has the most accurate bass in time domain what comes to Genelec models.

I’m not one into graph too much. Sure, they are valuable, but usually don’t convey the full picture, especially when it comes to speakers. For example, measurements don’t capture that metallic “aftertaste” which is part and parcel of aluminum.

I actually pointed out in my first post that the “SourceOne” charts better than the wooden boxes. However, with all due respect to you and Dr. Toole, the wooden boxes sound considerably better. You have to audition it yourself before you pass judgement (To be sure, many people exposed to my systems prefer the 1032c over the 8341 by a large margin).
 

Hephaestus

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I’m not one into graph too much. Sure, they are valuable, but usually don’t convey the full picture, especially when it comes to speakers. For example, measurements don’t capture that metallic “aftertaste” which is part and parcel of aluminum.

I actually pointed out in my first post that the “SourceOne” charts better than the wooden boxes. However, with all due respect to you and Dr. Toole, the wooden boxes sound considerably better. You have to audition it yourself before you pass judgement (To be sure, many people exposed to my systems prefer the 1032c over the 8341 by a large margin).

It is good to remember that our brains fails us in so many ways when listening sighted.
Yes there is still room for a personal preference but that room is surprisingly small.

By the way I have listened all current Genelec models up to 1238 and some older ones as well.
 

TimVG

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A bit late to the game, but here's my 2c.

The 8351B/8361B chart better than the 1237A, but the wooden boxes sound more delicious than the aluminum ones. The slit design on the coax produces a sound that I'm not fond of. I owe 8331a & 8341 & 1032C + quite a few subs. The 1032C is my favorite. Out of the SourceOne series, the 8331A sounds the best. Yes, I auditioned the bigger siblings, and the lows don't work for me. I can explain more, if anyone is interested,

If I had to move up to a 3-way, I'd get the 1238DF + a sub. I'd get the S360 over the 1032C only I the distance called for it; otherwise, the1032C sounds more balanced. All in all, an incredible value.


I'd say there's a couple of possible explanations though, none of which have anything to do with the cabinet material.

First of all, the 1032C in their own right are no slouch. I own the older A version myself. Slightly rougher around the edges (no pun intended), but they still hold up very well.

Second, while you mention using subs, the 1032C with its 10" midwoofer will demolish both the 8331 and 8341 in terms midbass performance and overal spl capabilities. When used fullrange, the difference will only get larger. Perception of bass is incredibly important in how we judge a system, and only in-room measurements can tell us what we need to know in this regard.

And third, the 1032C will have a better controlled beamwidth down to a lower frequency due its fysical dimensions being substantially larger, audible under the right circumstances.
 
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Pearljam5000

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Research done by Toole tells us that people will prefer speaker with flat on axis and smooth off axis response.

8351B& 8361A have more linear on axis response and smoother directivity than the Genelec wooden box options mentioned above.

What comes to bass - yes large woofer area and different port tuning combined with large enclosure will give them edge. (1237 and up)
In the other hand S360 has the most accurate bass in time domain what comes to Genelec models.
Itsbabs
It is good to remember that our brains fails us in so many ways when listening sighted.
Yes there is still room for a personal preference but that room is surprisingly small.

By the way I have listened all current Genelec models up to 1238 and some older ones as well.
Research done by Toole tells us that people will prefer speaker with flat on axis and smooth off axis response.

8351B& 8361A have more linear on axis response and smoother directivity than the Genelec wooden box options mentioned above.

What comes to bass - yes large woofer area and different port tuning combined with large enclosure will give them edge. (1237 and up)
In the other hand S360 has the most accurate bass in time domain what comes to Genelec models.
Let's say you have a budget of $10K
What are you buying
S360, 8361A or 1237A?
 

richard12511

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I see people aren't reading the posts above ;)


So jealous. Hard to imagine something that sounds better than that. It's like being surrounded by MEG 901s, Kii 3 BXT towers, but (imo) even better, since it has the other modes(though MEG speakers control down even lower to 30Hz). Really interesting to see their recording process and how they control balance. Really makes me want to listen to some of their stuff. Any recommendations?

Speaking of different modes, I've been wondering, does the complimentary mode work with multiple W371? By that I mean, do they talk to each other, or do they just talk to the 8351 that they're connected to? 8351b + W371 is (imo) the ultimate tower speaker solution for controlling bass , but they're still limited compared to the quality you can get with multisub, since the woofers(relative to bass wavelengths) are still pretty close together in space. But, if you have multiple W371 that can all talk with each other to see which can best deliver particular frequencies to the listening position, that might actually be better than multisub. It's like a multisub array, but with a much more complicated crossover network where instead of distributing the nulls to "average them out", you're delivering the bass in such a way that they don't produce the nulls in the first place. With 7.1, you'd have 21 woofers to choose from, and every woofer could just play the frequencies it can deliver to the MLP perfectly. Pretty sure it doesn't work that way, but that would be awesome if it did (GLM5 update :D?). Not that I could afford a 7.1 W371 array :p.

Then you have still the other two modes o_O, Cardioid mode that essentially turns them into Kii 3 + BXTs, then the cardioid steering mode that is basically cardioid mode + the ability to eliminate a particular destructive reflection(ceiling, floor, sidewall)? I'm not entirely sure I understand the third mode.
 

Sancus

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Really interesting to see their recording process and how they control balance. Really makes me want to listen to some of their stuff. Any recommendations?

Magnificat(Track 5 is my favourite, also this is probably their most famous album) is really good and Quiet Winter Night is probably the best-recorded acoustic jazz album I've ever heard period. I don't even like acoustic jazz that much, but all the Hoff Ensemble stuff is good. Polarity is top notch. This album has a random mix of their stuff. Mozart strings or Tchaikovsky are always excellent, too.

You can download a bunch of test tracks in 5.1 here. NativeDSD has most of their recent stuff in 5.1 to purchase, as well. As far as I know, the easiest way to hear a full immersive version is to try Magnificat on TIDAL in Atmos. All of their recordings that I've heard are excellent, so it's really down to what music you like from their catalog. Scandinavians are ridiculously blessed to have a recording studio doing work of this quality, it's a real shame that there is nobody doing the same for more mainstream music, classical or otherwise. You can find lots of 5.1 classical, but often this just means reflections in the surrounds which, while nice, is not on the same level. I don't know of anybody else doing full immersive work other than the Atmos re-mixes on TIDAL, which are hit and miss. There are some REAL hits mind you, like Yello's Point.

Unfortunately there is no way to download/stream most of their music in Auro3D/Atmos that I know of, you have to buy the discs. I'm not exactly sure how much the full Auro3D versions add... 5.1 is already a lot better than stereo, clarity and instrument separation is so much improved. I have the 5.1 version of Magnificat and Dolby Surround upmixed it sounds very similar to the Atmos version on TIDAL when level-matched. But I also only have a 5.1.2 -- once I get my final two surrounds I'll probably do more trials. If you've got a full 7.1.4+ in an Auro3D arrangement(like Toole's 9.4.6!) then the immersive versions may be materially better. Height channels do add something significant, for sure.
 
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HairyEars

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I’ve been asked in a different thread to share a comparison between the 8341A and the 1032c, both which I owe. Not wishing to hijack the discussion there—and since my post is relevant to the 8361 as well—I’ve move it over here.

The 8341A is a 3-way, and its coax driver delivers a clean, precise sound in the mid/upper frequencies that runs circles around the 1032c (although the latter’s tweeter is fantastic, shared by all Genelec’s main monitors). However, like all their aluminum monitors, the 8341A demonstrates a metallic tang that doesn’t sit right with me. I guess part and parcel of those enclosures. Some people may like that sound, but I prefer the neutrality of the MDF boxes

The second, and more troubling, deficiency of the 8341/51/61 is the slit design. To my ears, it generates a resonance that imparts the impression of an over-taut drum. The first moment I listened to the 8341A in my room, I picked on it and even called up the shop to verify my pair was not out of order. Eventually, that smeared LF became to annoying for me, compelling me to relegate the monitors to surround duties, where they shine to this day. If you want to get an idea what I refer to, just tap on a slit and pay attention to the distinct reverb. The same effect takes place when the monitor plays (instead of external tapping, the LF pressure hits the slit from within). I suppose Genelec considers it as an effectual way to boost the LF, but it doesn’t work for me. Again, some people may object to my preferences, and that’s absolutely fine.

In my humble opinion, the best-sounding OneSource is the 8331A, since its slits are relatively short and narrow (tapping it only yields a dull thud instead of a sharp echo). I use my pair with a subwoofer extensively in my office setup and find them many times more pleasant than the 8341A.

Taking the bird’s view:
Genelec’s aluminum monitors are ingenious, offering high SPL in compact packages, varying in sizes to fit multiple environments, augmented by a myriad of mounting options. In many small studios, home setups and surround systems, they’re the most effective game in town, with a sound that is praise-worthy. However, if one has the room and can commit to setting them up properly, the MDF boxes offer a superior sound, with creamy and rich tonality that still exhibits neutrality and precision.
 

Hephaestus

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I’ve been asked in a different thread to share a comparison between the 8341A and the 1032c, both which I owe. Not wishing to hijack the discussion there—and since my post is relevant to the 8361 as well—I’ve move it over here.

The 8341A is a 3-way, and its coax driver delivers a clean, precise sound in the mid/upper frequencies that runs circles around the 1032c (although the latter’s tweeter is fantastic, shared by all Genelec’s main monitors). However, like all their aluminum monitors, the 8341A demonstrates a metallic tang that doesn’t sit right with me. I guess part and parcel of those enclosures. Some people may like that sound, but I prefer the neutrality of the MDF boxes

The second, and more troubling, deficiency of the 8341/51/61 is the slit design. To my ears, it generates a resonance that imparts the impression of an over-taut drum. The first moment I listened to the 8341A in my room, I picked on it and even called up the shop to verify my pair was not out of order. Eventually, that smeared LF became to annoying for me, compelling me to relegate the monitors to surround duties, where they shine to this day. If you want to get an idea what I refer to, just tap on a slit and pay attention to the distinct reverb. The same effect takes place when the monitor plays (instead of external tapping, the LF pressure hits the slit from within). I suppose Genelec considers it as an effectual way to boost the LF, but it doesn’t work for me. Again, some people may object to my preferences, and that’s absolutely fine.

In my humble opinion, the best-sounding OneSource is the 8331A, since its slits are relatively short and narrow (tapping it only yields a dull thud instead of a sharp echo). I use my pair with a subwoofer extensively in my office setup and find them many times more pleasant than the 8341A.

Taking the bird’s view:
Genelec’s aluminum monitors are ingenious, offering high SPL in compact packages, varying in sizes to fit multiple environments, augmented by a myriad of mounting options. In many small studios, home setups and surround systems, they’re the most effective game in town, with a sound that is praise-worthy. However, if one has the room and can commit to setting them up properly, the MDF boxes offer a superior sound, with creamy and rich tonality that still exhibits neutrality and precision.

Interesting subjective experience - it does not align with mine. I perceive the bass of the 8341A and 8361A as neutral and accurate without any audible resonances.

Dr. Anselm Goertz mentions in his evaluation & measurements: "Spectrogram of the 8361A without noticeable resonances"

Could be the room or expectation bias...

I used to think that sealed box speakers have tighter bass until I read Dr. Toole´s book where he mentions that our hearing is not sensitive for these time domain "issues" - especially in the bass range. I expected all reflex designs to have wooly bass because of my biased and misinformed thoughts - surprise was big when I first time heard properly equalized smooth bass from bass reflex design (well engineered speaker of course) - not "wooly" or coloured at all.
 
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