Genelec: 1 x 7370A or 2 x Genelec 7360A?

[Kyle_PL]

Still tempted to drop the crossover to 50Hz. These 8351B's are SO GOOD already that it's barely different with or without the sub dialled in.

Genelec 8351B (one speaker have max 113dB so for pair will be 116dB) is much more powerfull, than Genelec 7360A (109dB). So very low crossover frequency could be optimal. Hard to tell how low.

Of note, I think I need to adjust the gain on the sub a little to compensate as you mention your sensitivity of both mains is higher than the single sub. Would GLM account for this or would I have to manually account for this myself?

Genelec GLM doing everything automatically. If You want boost bass after calibration, use "Sound Character Profiler":

... but remember - Genelec 7360A is very not optimal for Genelec 8351B, and after bass boost, 7360A will be ... more not optimal

 

[scottrichardson]

Genelec 8351B (one speaker have max 113dB so for pair will be 116dB) is much more powerfull, than Genelec 7360A (109dB). So very low crossover frequency could be optimal. Hard to tell how low.


Genelec GLM doing everything automatically. If You want boost bass after calibration, use "Sound Character Profiler":

... but remember - Genelec 7360A is very not optimal for Genelec 8351B, and after bass boost, 7360A will be ... more not optimal

I guess - the thing is I don't run the 8351B's super super loud. So I could compensate by gaining up the sub to suit?

 

[Kyle_PL]

So I could compensate by gaining up the sub to suit?

If You want gain up bass region, gain it up by "Sound Character Profiler" from GLM software.

 

[scottrichardson]

If You want gain up bass region, gain it up by "Sound Character Profiler" from GLM software.

Yeah I did by 3db @ 100Hz. I also added a high shelf that lowers everything from 400Hz and up by 1.5dB.

The combination of the two shelf filters has netted me a reasonably nice overall response. I ALSO turned my main monitors down by -3dB. Otherwise the low end was softer than the mains.

GLM seemed to really struggle to get the low end loud enough compared to the mains when I have the sub engaged using the default GLM processing. Which is odd, because when I ONLY use my mains, there's tons of low end.

Take a look at the EQ it applied to my sub, and then also have a look at my final response of both speakers+sub from REW and my UMIK-1 (at 90 deg). My room has acoustic treatment on all walls and roof also, except for a corner window which has a blind covering it. It's a mixture of 24 and 12mm acoustic panels from Autex Acoustics.

 

[srrxr71]

I like to have a room curve just to account for our hearing sensitivity to lower frequencies. I'm about to run REW on the system and then I will move the sub to under my desk at the front to test there as well. By the sounds of a test tone that I ran, I am getting pretty much FLAT from 20-90Hz. I can 'hear' a bump at ~100Hz which GLM didn't appear to pick up so I will adjust manually if REW picks up the same response issue.

Still tempted to drop the crossover to 50Hz. These 8351B's are SO GOOD already that it's barely different with or without the sub dialled in.

Of note, I think I need to adjust the gain on the sub a little to compensate as you mention your sensitivity of both mains is higher than the single sub. Would GLM account for this or would I have to manually account for this myself?

GLM handles it all. Also yes it calibrates to flat and most of us are not used to that. We are used to having tons of room reinforcement. So I would use SCP and bring that up. Heck if you want to really go crazy you can adjust the individual filters and go even higher than +3dB.

 

[scottrichardson]

GLM handles it all. Also yes it calibrates to flat and most of us are not used to that. We are used to having tons of room reinforcement. So I would use SCP and bring that up. Heck if you want to really go crazy you can adjust the individual filters and go even higher than +3dB.

Yeah the odd thing is, when GLM just calibrates my mains, there's tons of bass. But if I include the sub, there's substantially less bass. Even If I add the +3dB shelf, it's still substantially different to just the mains. Calibrated flat, my mains are perfect and smooth down to 30Hz or so at my listening position. If I run the sub as calibrated by GLM, I'm good down to around 60Hz then a sharp drop in volume. So either the supplied microphone is hearing things I cannot, or something is up with the calibration. Hence why I have had to:
1. +3db shelf
2. -1.5db high shelf
3. Reduce volume of mains by -1.5dB
4. Manually increase the gain on the sub by +2dB.

So we're looking at a total of +8dB boost when you think about it. What gives?

 

[srrxr71]

Yeah the odd thing is, when GLM just calibrates my mains, there's tons of bass. But if I include the sub, there's substantially less bass. Even If I add the +3dB shelf, it's still substantially different to just the mains. Calibrated flat, my mains are perfect and smooth down to 30Hz or so at my listening position. If I run the sub as calibrated by GLM, I'm good down to around 60Hz then a sharp drop in volume. So either the supplied microphone is hearing things I cannot, or something is up with the calibration. Hence why I have had to:
1. +3db shelf
2. -1.5db high shelf
3. Reduce volume of mains by -1.5dB
4. Manually increase the gain on the sub by +2dB.

So we're looking at a total of +8dB boost when you think about it. What givees?

Why worry just enjoy

 

[dagfinn]

Yeah the odd thing is, when GLM just calibrates my mains, there's tons of bass. But if I include the sub, there's substantially less bass. Even If I add the +3dB shelf, it's still substantially different to just the mains. Calibrated flat, my mains are perfect and smooth down to 30Hz or so at my listening position. If I run the sub as calibrated by GLM, I'm good down to around 60Hz then a sharp drop in volume. So either the supplied microphone is hearing things I cannot, or something is up with the calibration. Hence why I have had to:
1. +3db shelf
2. -1.5db high shelf
3. Reduce volume of mains by -1.5dB
4. Manually increase the gain on the sub by +2dB.

So we're looking at a total of +8dB boost when you think about it. What gives?

Hm, I've noticed this from others using GLM. I've previously run the 7360a in analog mode (85Hz fixed crossover), minimum sensitivity, lots of bass, and still have huge reserves available - no limiting ever. Strange. I currently use miniDSP Flex to lowpass subs, mains run full range. No shortage of volume in this configuration either.

If you measure using REW, what does it say?

 

[scottrichardson]

Hm, I've noticed this from others using GLM. I've previously run the 7360a in analog mode (85Hz fixed crossover), minimum sensitivity, lots of bass, and still have huge reserves available - no limiting ever. Strange. I currently use miniDSP Flex to lowpass subs, mains run full range. No shortage of volume in this configuration either.

If you measure using REW, what does it say?

I'm running distributed bass mode. So I am running Y cables out of my audio interface splitting each channel and sending a copy or L+R to the sub, and L+R to the mains.

If you look at the EQ graph of the sub I posted previously, you can see GLM is pulling down all the bass by a ton. Just not sure how it is 'hearing' that it needs to do so much. Leaving it like that, it's barely audible. I'm sure the resulting response is flat in shape, but just not loud enough, hence my need to provide an ~8dB boost overall.

I'll do a full REW measurement of how GLM wants it and post it (tomorrow when I return home).

Scott

 

[Kyle_PL]

I'm running distributed bass mode. So I am running Y cables out of my audio interface splitting each channel and sending a copy or L+R to the sub, and L+R to the mains.

I don't have any problem with digitally connected speakers and sub - You may try this solution.

 

[scottrichardson]

I don't have any problem with digitally connected speakers and sub - You may try this solution.

Apologies for the naive question, however how do I connect digitally? My Apogee Duet 3 only has analogue outs I believe.

 

[srrxr71]

Apologies for the naive question, however how do I connect digitally? My Apogee Duet 3 only has analogue outs I believe.

The easiest option is the Topping D10

 

[scottrichardson]

Ok folks.

Here's some new measurements. I have moved the sub to under my desk, front left corner. It sits just outside my left main monitor, and on the ground. I have it facing towards the right and the port facing towards the front.

Crossover 55Hz.

FUN FACT - A positive +3dB low shelf @ 85Hz WILL NOT work with a subwoofer. GLM subwoofers do not support +positive gain EQ in any form. So the low shelf was only applying to the mains down to the crossover point and then nothing else boosted. Which explains why I was originally getting a hump above the crossover point.

To remedy this, I simply swapped to a high shelf of negative -3dB to apply it in reverse. Worked perfectly.

Below is the response I now have at my seating position with the sub under the desk, left+ sub (green) and right + sub (blue).

 

[srrxr71]

Ok folks.

Here's some new measurements. I have moved the sub to under my desk, front left corner. It sits just outside my left main monitor, and on the ground. I have it facing towards the right and the port facing towards the front.

Crossover 55Hz.

FUN FACT - A positive +3dB low shelf @ 85Hz WILL NOT work with a subwoofer. GLM subwoofers do not support +positive gain EQ in any form. So the low shelf was only applying to the mains down to the crossover point and then nothing else boosted. Which explains why I was originally getting a hump above the crossover point.

To remedy this, I simply swapped to a high shelf of negative -3dB to apply it in reverse. Worked perfectly.

Below is the response I now have at my seating position with the sub under the desk, left+ sub (green) and right + sub (blue).

View attachment 480628

Wow I had no idea. Great solution!

 

[Kyle_PL]

In digital domain is always safer to subtract dB than adding dB