"Is Audiophile Snobbery Ruining our Hobby ?"

[_thelaughingman]

I've been disappointed with Audioholics of late, especially for some very flattering reviews of stuff with no mention of possible conflicts of interest. Then I was watching this video:

At about 14 minutes Gene starts harshly criticizing ASR for basing recommendations on measurements, esp SINAD and grossly mis-characterizes the approach that most of us use. I would argue that @Amir and our other experts emphasize measurements as a reflection of engineering excellence and certainly don't push them as the only factor of importance when choosing gear. The video really raised the hair on my back and, for me, destroyed any remaining credibility over at Audioholics.

Gene is in the business of publishing and selling reviews for expensive audiphool products, it was bound to happen that he would resort to this eventually.

 

[Soundmixer]

I would argue that @Amir and our other experts emphasize measurements as a reflection of engineering excellence and certainly don't push them as the only factor of importance when choosing gear.

I tend to agree with you here, but if Gene mentions that, then all of a sudden a lot of traffic comes to ASR instead of Audioholics.

 

[DWPress]

I don't know who any of these people are but sounds like they like to listen to themselves talk from the brief bit I watched. I know lots of folks in many fields who talk with authority when when they really should take the time to listen and learn....

 

[blueone]

I stopped posting on Audioholics a long time ago, due to lack of reviews, too many opinion pieces written mostly to generate clicks, and way too much political traffic. There are still a few posts worth reading, mainly speaker and subwoofer reviews, but when I visit it seems like most of the posting traffic is in the Steam Vent forum (where the politics are), and simplistic audio or HT questions from beginners. There's a far higher volume of high-quality postings about audio-related topics on ASR, often from industry experts, and, of course, Amir sets a new standard for publishing objective reviews with measurements.

I'm really surprised at Gene for the hatchet job on ASR and Amir. I thought he was better than that. Anyway, Gene, can't you read? Many of the products Amir gives high ratings to are reasonably priced, including Topping electronics and an Apple dongle. After watching [some of] the video you would think Amir was Michael Fremer's lost brother. Nonsense.

 

[Beave]

There's a thread discussing this video already in progress:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-audiophile-snobbery-ruining-our-hobby.34223/

 

[Enkay25]

I've been disappointed with Audioholics of late, especially for some very flattering reviews of stuff with no mention of possible conflicts of interest. Then I was watching this video:

At about 14 minutes Gene starts harshly criticizing ASR for basing recommendations on measurements, esp SINAD and grossly mis-characterizes the approach that most of us use. I would argue that @Amir and our other experts emphasize measurements as a reflection of engineering excellence and certainly don't push them as the only factor of importance when choosing gear. The video really raised the hair on my back and, for me, destroyed any remaining credibility over at Audioholics.

I agree. It speaks very poorly of Gene to start dishing like that. IMO he may be feeling some jealousy over the traction here at ASR and ASR impacts on the industry.

The livestream also is a mediocre discussion. Somehow couldn't complete seeing it to the finish.

 

[Astrozombie]

Yikes, I watch the channel but didn't watch that video as it was too long.

 

[Kachda]

Gene and (especially) @Matthew J Poes used to post quite frequently in this forum. I don't remember seeming much of them recently.

 

[alex-z]

Gene suffering from memory loss. Amir does not base his recommendations on measurements, he still does listening tests for speakers and headphones. There have been well measuring products which do not get a recommendation, and below average products which do.

Amplifiers and DAC's can be 100% quantified by measurements so it is entirely valid to making purchasing decisions using only that data.

If we are the snobs this decade, at least we have data to back it up, unlike the magazine and youtube reviewers who can't be arsed to even own a measurement mic.

 

[JSmith]

Please...

There's a thread discussing this video already in progress:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-audiophile-snobbery-ruining-our-hobby.34223/

"Is Audiophile Snobbery Ruining our Hobby ?"

www.audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

 

[Chrispy]

Gene is in the business of publishing and selling reviews for expensive audiphool products, it was bound to happen that he would resort to this eventually.

No, he doesn't promote such products that I've seen, got some examples other than "preview/marketing blurbs"? He doesn't care for the audiophool stuff for the most part, altho I believe he was such an audiophool at some points with some gear's promises. I think Gene is resentful of some of the treatment he got here on ASR with some poorly thought out responses on both sides. ASR isn't perfect by any means.

 

[JSmith]

Gene

... looks like he's left, since Dec. last year;

Gene asked me to delete his account which I did.

Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier)

Also, why bring up the voltage issue after two months? It was offered as a possible solution just a day after the review? Would have been easy to do some decent communication about this and prevent a whole lot of animosity.

audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

 

[Chrispy]

I know it isn't popular to say here, but matching or mismatching components can make an audible difference and the shops that are still open are probably the shops that listen to their customers and know their products good enough to meet their needs at each price level.

Snobbery has a place in every hobby, I'm a bit of a snob when it comes to work ethic, but I wouldn't blame a lack of it on my attitude. maybe I missed the point completely

In terms of gain relationships or ? Is that "synergy"?

 

[Chrispy]

View attachment 208538 ... looks like he's left, since Dec. last year;

Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier)

Also, why bring up the voltage issue after two months? It was offered as a possible solution just a day after the review? Would have been easy to do some decent communication about this and prevent a whole lot of animosity.

audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

I seem to remember he got a bit worked up on the importance of the SINAD ranking just on its own and some conversations that resulted from such.....and he had a point but perhaps not the same as many of us think of it as....

ps in general I think the snobbery is one of the worst aspects of consumers of audio gear.

 

[clearnfc]

I've been disappointed with Audioholics of late, especially for some very flattering reviews of stuff with no mention of possible conflicts of interest. Then I was watching this video:

At about 14 minutes Gene starts harshly criticizing ASR for basing recommendations on measurements, esp SINAD and grossly mis-characterizes the approach that most of us use. I would argue that @Amir and our other experts emphasize measurements as a reflection of engineering excellence and certainly don't push them as the only factor of importance when choosing gear. The video really raised the hair on my back and, for me, destroyed any remaining credibility over at Audioholics.

Well, i would say dont take it too seriously. He is entitled to his opinions and not everyone has to agree with it. Why let things on the internet upset you and spoil your day?

 

[Beershaun]

I think it has the same issues every hobby has. 1) how approachable is it for new people who are curious and when they show up are they welcomed warmly so they find a connection and return? 2) does it cast a wide tent? Does it expand on it's definition and coverage as new variations and extensions of the hobby arise or does it try to stay focused on the original definition. 3) do people feel like the cost of entry is low enough that the average person can dip their toe in the water and have fun alongside people who have significantly larger budgets and still have fun?

Two other hobbies of mine that, in my experience, do well generally as avoiding snobbery are: home brewing and high performance driving track day driving clubs.

In home brewing you can spend $100 or thousands on your setup and make great beer. You can hang out with other enthusiastic brewers including professionals and chat about beer, brewing techniques, gadgets, and learn from each other and share knowledge while having a great time. It has expanded to cover cider making and mead making as those types of brews have become more popular. People generally are nice and love to chat about their hobby.

With track day driving the Porsche club or bmw club will let anyone with a safe car join them at a track day. Volunteer instructors sit with you while you drive and give you tips and techniques to learn the basics and learn the track and your car. In the paddock you have kids in their parents old Honda chatting with retired folks in their classic muscle cars, next to a wealthy person in a nomex suit driving a Lamborghini with racing slicks. All willing to chat and show each other around their cars and talk about their experiences.

So I think following those types of guidelines and creating those types of experiences avoids snobbery and grows the hobby.

 

[solderdude]

It is common practice in the higher-end audio aficionado world to crap on ASR and use the SINAD chart as an excuse.
They either don't read the full reviews and other posts or they simply disagree based on their (and others) subjective findings which often don't jive with technical performance.
Let us be the wisest of the bunch and just publish facts (measurements) and comment on those.

 

[xaviescacs]

I guess when one identifies himself with that picture something is wrong... yes, that hurt.

 

[xaviescacs]

I've watched the firsts seconds, they pursue the truth!

 

[VintageFlanker]

Topic already opened elsewhere...

In addition:

At about 14 minutes Gene starts harshly criticizing ASR for basing recommendations on measurements, esp SINAD and grossly mis-characterizes the approach that most of us use.

ASR is not mentioned at all (Edit: my bad, it really is...) and I'm sorry but he's actually right : A lot of (guest) readers here are widely relying on SINAD charts to rank products and even imagine their subjective listening based on it. Just check others forums, YT, etc... what people say outside ASR.

I would argue that @Amir and our other experts emphasize measurements as a reflection of engineering excellence and certainly don't push them as the only factor of importance when choosing gear.

Unfortunately, you don't speak for all objectivists. From my perspective, the majority of readers (not experts) seem to believe that to be the case. Choosing electronic solely based on one SINAD number, or speaker on Olive's Score... I lost the count how many times I red that. Here or elsewhere, for that matter.