Geithain RL 901K vs Neumann KH420

[Waxx]

There was a lot more history than that in my readings! I think they are a group dedicated to superior results… which happens to be what im looking for!
Regardless who they are, i heard what i heard!
If elephant butt made those results i heard from 901, best believe im setting up an elephant pin in my backyard!!!

They do sell in the EU and give support. The mastering engineer (now retired) i was talking about in an earlier post lives in Belgium and still has them, and has good support from them he said. But their main taraget is Germany and Austria, their home market where they are active since very long. Those who are in the US are grey market imports, not offical because they don't do that. It's not profitable for them. And for a lot of smaller EU companies it isn't, especially in tech that is not software.

 

[prestigetone]

They do sell in the EU and give support. The mastering engineer (now retired) i was talking about in an earlier post lives in Belgium and still has them, and has good support from them he said. But their main taraget is Germany and Austria, their home market where they are active since very long. Those who are in the US are grey market imports, not offical because they don't do that. It's not profitable for them. And for a lot of smaller EU companies it isn't, especially in tech that is not software.

I ordered mine through the importer distributor and reseller Vintagr King. They were officially in business for USA sales. They were not grey market and they lack the skill to pack their own products correctly, which I won’t repeat again.

 

[Ktacos]

I started this thread with the expectation to spend 10-14k on a set of main monitors because that is what i was prepared to spend.

You should just try some other monitors that aren't in the budget category. I'm not really sure why you made a jump from $500 to 10k. The diminishing returns are huge at that price point and in most cases you're mostly paying for the finish on the speaker. There are plenty of nuemann and genelec offerings with sane prices and their engineering is better than what Gethain is putting out.

And when i listened to the speakers side by side i heard the difference.

yeah, speakers do sound different, but you need to figure out if that difference lines up with the price tag and whether it will be of benefit to your work.

I can tell you right now, I've used genelec, neumann, ATC, focal, yamaha, behringer, kali, and JBL monitors and it never really mattered too much which one I was using. My connection to what I heard and worked on had nothing to do with the monitors. I'm feeling a bit old but I'm hitting around year 15 of mixing and still quite active, and the monitors I use are generally the least of my worries. Of course having something neutral with a dispersion that matches your tastes can be nice, but I'd wager going for gethain, ATC, or others is just going to leave you staring at expensive boxes while your mixes don't really improve too much.

 

[Waxx]

I ordered mine through the importer distributor and reseller Vintagr King. They were officially in business for USA sales. They were not grey market and they lack the skill to pack their own products correctly, which I won’t repeat again.

As far as i heared, Vintage King was never official importer, they just ordered a bigger amount of them at once and tried to resell them in the US, and Geithan knew that. That was discussed on Gearslutz (now Gearspace) before, when that happened years ago. Geithan never had official support in the US, only unofficial trough Vintage King, who needs to send back the units to have repairs. There is no repair center in the US and there has never been one. And components are for a big part custom (OEM), not standard. Vintage King did that before with other brands also, with the same kind of issues. They want to have it all and watch sites like Gearspace to find out what is popular in the world.

Geithan is a boutique brand, not a big mass production company, with about 30 employees (at least a few years ago) and a lot of manual assembly. They can't afford official import, they got known because the ARD bought their RL901 as monitors (and so did a lot of other broadcast companies in Germany) but they are still a small family owned boutique company.

 

[prestigetone]

As far as i heared, Vintage King was never official importer, they just ordered a bigger amount of them at once and tried to resell them in the US, and Geithan knew that. That was discussed on Gearslutz (now Gearspace) before, when that happened years ago. Geithan never had official support in the US, only unofficial trough Vintage King, who needs to send back the units to have repairs. There is no repair center in the US and there has never been one. And components are for a big part custom (OEM), not standard. Vintage King did that before with other brands also, with the same kind of issues. They want to have it all and watch sites like Gearspace to find out what is popular in the world.

Geithan is a boutique brand, not a big mass production company, with about 30 employees (at least a few years ago) and a lot of manual assembly. They can't afford official import, they got known because the ARD bought their RL901 as monitors (and so did a lot of other broadcast companies in Germany) but they are still a small family owned boutique company.

Can you link the gearspace discussion please?

 

[Waxx]

You should just try some other monitors that aren't in the budget category. I'm not really sure why you made a jump from $500 to 10k. The diminishing returns are huge at that price point and in most cases you're mostly paying for the finish on the speaker. There are plenty of nuemann and genelec offerings with sane prices and their engineering is better than what Gethain is putting out.

The ARD did replace their Klein & Hummel O300 (ancestor of the Neuman KH310) with the Geithan LR900 (ancestor of the LR901K) because their measurements and tests proofed it better...

yeah, speakers do sound different, but you need to figure out if that difference lines up with the price tag and whether it will be of benefit to your work.

I can tell you right now, I've used genelec, neumann, ATC, focal, yamaha, behringer, kali, and JBL monitors and it never really mattered too much which one I was using. My connection to what I heard and worked on had nothing to do with the monitors. I'm feeling a bit old but I'm hitting around year 15 of mixing and still quite active, and the monitors I use are generally the least of my worries.

I mixed for years on small Tannoy reveal monitors, very mediocore but i knew them inside out and could mix on them better than on a lot of speakers i saw in studio's i worked in as freelancer (including Genelec). I used to take my speakers with me all the time when i had a mixing job and they were my reference. A lot of freelance engineers do that btw, and mostly not with expensive monitors (very often Dynaudio BM5A at the time i did that). As freelance sound engineer you mix with what you get in front of you, and the good ones can work with that and adapt with the speaker that they know inside out.

Those Tannoy's went up in smoke btw, after 15 years of (ab)uuse. Now i use my desk speakers, diy designed bookshelfs with a Mark Audio 10.3 driver. But as that are the speakers i listen to the most, i know them also inside out now and can mix on them with good translation. I still will try to build my own monitors (with dsp and dirac) soon, as it surely helps to have neutral speakers, but it's not mandatory if you have speakers you know inside out.

 

[Waxx]

Can you link the gearspace discussion please?

I can't find it, it's from their old forum and not everything is saved to the new one during the transition i know. But Vintag King is known and reputed for that kind grey import where things go wrong and you don't get the support you should have. Geithan is only one brand, they had the same with Oktava microphones (from Russia) and and some European boutique electronics makers that they tried to import, but never got the service right and so dropped out.

 

[thewas]

The ARD did replace their Klein & Hummel O300 (ancestor of the Neuman KH310) with the Geithan LR900 (ancestor of the LR901K) because their measurements and tests proofed it better...

From what I know it was just listening tests. By the way the WDR had chosen this way some decades ago a special version of the Spendor BC1 and it seems nowadays ARD mainly uses Genelec... I personally like the tuning/voicing of Geithains and due to that and the cardioid of their larger models I have recommended them to friends (who also enjoy them) as they are more "plug and enjoy", on the other hand for "work" I probably would probably rather go for the coaxial Genelecs and ideally the W371 instead.

 

[drdredd]

You should just try some other monitors that aren't in the budget category. I'm not really sure why you made a jump from $500 to 10k. The diminishing returns are huge at that price point and in most cases you're mostly paying for the finish on the speaker. There are plenty of nuemann and genelec offerings with sane prices and their engineering is better than what Gethain is putting out.



yeah, speakers do sound different, but you need to figure out if that difference lines up with the price tag and whether it will be of benefit to your work.

I can tell you right now, I've used genelec, neumann, ATC, focal, yamaha, behringer, kali, and JBL monitors and it never really mattered too much which one I was using. My connection to what I heard and worked on had nothing to do with the monitors. I'm feeling a bit old but I'm hitting around year 15 of mixing and still quite active, and the monitors I use are generally the least of my worries. Of course having something neutral with a dispersion that matches your tastes can be nice, but I'd wager going for gethain, ATC, or others is just going to leave you staring at expensive boxes while your mixes don't really improve too much.

Probably never mattered which one you are using because they aren't geithain ill take your advice in consideration if you have heard the speakers. This thread is about expensive boxes.
I’ve mixed on all those brands too. Always left me wanting more. More range more detail. I have learned my current speakers they are in the 4k range. You clearly haven’t read the original post. I’m tired of always taking in to consideration the quirks of whatever speaker im working on. I want the truth and that’s what i found with geithain.
You underestimate the power of cardioid low end. I believe this makes the difference.

 

[drdredd]

From what I know it was just listening tests. By the way the WDR had chosen this way some decades ago a special version of the Spendor BC1 and it seems nowadays ARD mainly uses Genelec... I personally like the tuning/voicing of Geithains and due to that and the cardioid of their larger models I have recommended them to friends (who also enjoy them) as they are more "plug and enjoy", on the other hand for "work" I probably would probably rather go for the coaxial Genelecs and ideally the W371 instead.

I would love a genelec setup with w371 subs however this puts me way over budget.

 

[lowkeyoperations]

Has nothing to do with anything I said. I've literally never even looked at preference scores, they are meaningless for me. Why did you even bring that up? Feels like you didn't read much of what I said and just tossed out some cool info you've learned?

Preference scores are an improvement over doing what you are doing in comparison…grabbing a couple of data points and then claiming you know how a monitor performs.

My issue is a company asking crazy money for a speaker that is considerably less neutral than some of the stuff I've DIY'd. Of course because of our silly brains people make up all sorts of justifications for every speaker product, which is why you end your post with silly non-sense like "Lots of people like them" as if that means anything at all.

I'd wager these brands so many like are not quite as common as one thinks. ATC for example, whens the last time you actualy used a pair at a studio? I genuinely don't see them anywhere, mostly just fancy studio pics from studios that will probably close down in a few years anyway.

Silly is arguing that any studio using Geithain, a long standing company, will “probably close down in a few years” because your feelings are hurt about them.

This is just the most ridiculous nonsense from someone who claims to be data driven.

Do you have any research that concludes that Geithain based studios go out of business more often than Neumann based studios, or it that just your bias showing through?

It seems like the same anti-ATC bias is just being thrown at Geithan here.

I'm probably in the minority but these silly priced speakers just make me cringe.

The Geithans are no more expensive than D&D8c, Kii7, and Genelec 8361.

Again, show me a pair of cardioid monitors, with 16” drivers that is full range to 25hz for less.

That goes for brands I even respect a lot, like genelecs latest flagship speaker or kii, great engineering and products but come on, the prices are just insane and impractical for most humans. Companies have sure done a great job of convincing people that more money is better though.

OP needs to learn stuff about speakers before spending money, because his post screams of audiophile non-sense. My desire to use this forum decreases each day as it feels it's being taken over by the same non-sense that drove me away from other places.

Your post screams of jealously. The OP can afford monitors in the 10,000 euro ballpark.
Suggesting he go back to $500 speakers because you don’t like the look of Geithains (you’ve never heard them) is what is non sensical.

 

[prestigetone]

Probably never mattered which one you are using because they aren't geithain ill take your advice in consideration if you have heard the speakers. This thread is about expensive boxes.
I’ve mixed on all those brands too. Always left me wanting more. More range more detail. I have learned my current speakers they are in the 4k range. You clearly haven’t read the original post. I’m tired of always taking in to consideration the quirks of whatever speaker im working on. I want the truth and that’s what i found with geithain.
You underestimate the power of cardioid low end. I believe this makes the difference.

Yeah this is what I was told by a mastering engineer about the 934s. Used the 8cs for a long time and then they ended up selling those moving to Geithain. Made a huge difference in their mixes.

Forget what I said about the Vintage King 934k.k I know they’re too small anyways but there is a ton of damage to the cabinets. I’ve heard the 930k, 901 and 906. All sounded better to me than the 8c or Kii. Though the lower end on the kii is astounding. I can’t imagine what the bass units would do.

 

[Ktacos]

Probably never mattered which one you are using because they aren't geithain ill take your advice in consideration if you have heard the speakers. This thread is about expensive boxes.
I’ve mixed on all those brands too. Always left me wanting more. More range more detail. I have learned my current speakers they are in the 4k range. You clearly haven’t read the original post. I’m tired of always taking in to consideration the quirks of whatever speaker im working on. I want the truth and that’s what i found with geithain.
You underestimate the power of cardioid low end. I believe this makes the difference.

You're contradicting your OP, you stated you've used some budget adam stuff and gr research monitor, and that you haven't even heard gethain. So where's the truth in your own experiences? I'm detecting some dishonesty here in an attempt to justify your own reasoning. I mean your entire interest in gethain apparently stems from a gear space post?

I've worked in live, we were doing cardoid arrays well before they were making into monitors/hifi. I've tried them in monitor form, neat but not really something that made me go "wow what have I been missing", but of course according to you I just underestimate the effect?

You're definitely just totally lost in the sauce here, no real goals. Good luck.

 

[drdredd]

You're contradicting your OP, you stated you've used some budget adam stuff and gr research monitor, and that you haven't even heard gethain. So where's the truth in your own experiences? I'm detecting some dishonesty here in an attempt to justify your own reasoning. I mean your entire interest in gethain apparently stems from a gear space post?

I've worked in live, we were doing cardoid arrays well before they were making into monitors/hifi. I've tried them in monitor form, neat but not really something that made me go "wow what have I been missing", but of course according to you I just underestimate the effect?

You're definitely just totally lost in the sauce here, no real goals. Good luck.

Looks like you are just here to stir up trouble. You clearly haven’t read my posts and am now accusing me of being dishonest. I’ve reported you.

 

[drdredd]

To get this thread back on track, on a more positive note. I am in the process of ensuring a shipment to the US will be well handled and insured for a pair of Geithain RL901K. They should be arriving mid-late October! If anyone would like to try to get these speakers some better measurement data and is near FL i am happy to put them through there paces!

 

[prestigetone]

Where did you audition the 901s? Hard to hear all of those side by side

 

[prestigetone]

To get this thread back on track, on a more positive note. I am in the process of ensuring a shipment to the US will be well handled and insured for a pair of Geithain RL901K. They should be arriving mid-late October! If anyone would like to try to get these speakers some better measurement data and is near FL i am happy to put them through there paces!

Congrats! Did you order direct?

 

[drdredd]

Where did you audition the 901s? Hard to hear all of those side by side

I auditioned in multiple spaces. First studio i mentioned in a recent post where i auditioned just Geithain (901K and down) and Neumann.
I then went to a shop in Berlin called Digital Audionetworx. They had ATC, PSI, Neumann, Geithain and Genelec.

 

[drdredd]

Congrats! Did you order direct?

Nope! I am planning on ordering through local dealers in Europe, still talking to a couple to work out best shipping practice. (thanks for the advice on this, couldn't imagine shipping going bad!) deal should be buttoned up next week!

 

[Ktacos]

Looks like you are just here to stir up trouble. You clearly haven’t read my posts and am now accusing me of being dishonest. I’ve reported you.

Well that's adorable, but not a reportable offense.

Not here to stir up trouble but to provide some opinions ground in reality, of course you're not interested in that are you? You just want the truth, not the real truth of course just the one that makes you feel better? Again good luck, you will need it.