Do you have any measurements you could share of your speakers?
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Do you have any measurements you could share of your speakers?
prestigetone
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Getihain veneer cannot be matched meaning they are unparalleled. They all look good. They all are flawless. Which is even more of a shame when they don't use proper styrofoam to protect weeks of hard work. ATC looks fine but they are normal hifi speakers with a basic veneer.In what way do you mean ATC can't match the veneer?
The veneer of the two pairs of ATC speakers I have perfectly matched.
ATC are great at matching things, the frequency response pair matching is outstanding for passive speakers with no more than about 0.5 dB deviation between the speakers.
For example, I like the way the carpenter made the edges of the boxes. They are made from solid wood...
Well, I still had my ATC SCM 11 when I got my Geithain speakers, and the veneer work on the ATC wasn't that good. However, the veneer work does not impact the sound of course. The cardioid design is quite impressive. When stepping behind the speakers there is practically no bass....
https://www.me-geithain.de/en/rl-901k2.html
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I know these measurements, and they look impressive. Especially the distortion level at 96dB - below 0.5% even down to 100Hz despite the cardioid design.
Looking at the measurements and the prices, the RL901K seems to be the "sweet spot" in Geithains lineup - despite their age.
Would be helpful though to have a full set of Spinorama data available to compare with other designs.
No, I am sorry...
P.S.
Does ATC provide any data on their website... ?
No, I have not seen any measurements on ATC's website, but what does that have to do with me asking you if you can share the measurements of your Geithains? I thought that would be interesting for OP and everyone else discussing the Geithain speakers in this thread.
Wash your mouth out with soap and water.No, I am sorry...
P.S.
Does ATC provide any data on their website... ?
Keith
The data provided by Geithain were measured in an anechoic chamber (if I am informed correctly). I think that these data provide more meaningful information than the data measured in my living room...
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How can these geithains be cardioid when there is only one bass speaker?
For example, I like the way the carpenter made the edges of the boxes. They are made from solid wood...
Well, I still had my ATC SCM 11 when I got my Geithain speakers, and the veneer work on the ATC wasn't that good. However, the veneer work does not impact the sound of course. The cardioid design is quite impressive. When stepping behind the speakers there is practically no bass....
I thought you were criticizing ATC's veneer pair matching between their speakers as a pair when you said "ATC can't even match the quality of the veneer". I didn't realize you were talking about the quality of the veneer between Geithain speakers and ATC speakers.
There are openings with some kind of foam in the back, providing sufficient flow resistance to cause phase cancellation at the back. Clever passive design not requiring any DSP.
Geithain use a resistance enclosure. It allows the anti-phase sound pressure from the back of the cone to leak out through the back with a time/phase delay, hence cancelling in the rear direction. Due to Geithain's specific arrangement, their cardioid is most effective at low frequencies (less than 200Hz), while other arrangements (such as the one found in the Dutch and Dutch 8C, or my DIY speaker) are more effective higher in frequency. This comes at the cost of bigger bass rolloff.
It's not impossible to make measurements with a gated window you know, and it's certainly not impossible that you or anyone else who owns a pair have made measurements that could complement the measurements Geithain provides on their website. That's why I asked you as an owner of these speakers if you have any measurements to share, as that would have been interesting to see.
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What do I care about the price back then? The LS 3/5a used to be relatively cheap. Look at today's prices. The BR25s are sold in (hopefully) good condition for upwards of €150 and so they have to stand up to comparison with Behringer, JBL etc.. That doesn't mean they're bad.
Again. I didn't write that Geithain is bad. I just want to know why they get such high marks, it's pure curiosity. So calm down.
Pure physics, which you hopefully learn in secondary school.
Take measurements without and with a plate in front of a chassis!
10 years earlier there was something similar from Klein+Hummel (now Neumann ! ), called O92, with a swinging rear panel.
And there was also the Genelec 1019.
lowkeyoperations
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You haven’t supplied any measurements to back up your claim at all though, just a hypothesis based on your secondary school physics.
My take.
Gethain - A company with speakers that seem kind of difficult to get a hold of, no third party reviews with good data afaik. Some users have posted troublesome interactions with the company. The data Gethain provides looks pretty average and not at all what I would expect from such costly speakers. I get an ATC vibe from them, lot of nice cabinetry but a performance that doesn't really match the price at all with quality measurement data being practically hidden.
Neumann - Speakers are easy to get a hold of, they happily send stuff to this very site for review. Their speakers consistently show state of the art performance at what most would consider a totally reasonable price.
Why is gethain even considered? I'm really bored of these brands that do the bare minimum to show their products are competent. Hell I've learned the playbook from these companies so well I should start my own and just siphon money from people.
Gethain - A company with speakers that seem kind of difficult to get a hold of, no third party reviews with good data afaik. Some users have posted troublesome interactions with the company. The data Gethain provides looks pretty average and not at all what I would expect from such costly speakers. I get an ATC vibe from them, lot of nice cabinetry but a performance that doesn't really match the price at all with quality measurement data being practically hidden.
Neumann - Speakers are easy to get a hold of, they happily send stuff to this very site for review. Their speakers consistently show state of the art performance at what most would consider a totally reasonable price.
Why is gethain even considered? I'm really bored of these brands that do the bare minimum to show their products are competent. Hell I've learned the playbook from these companies so well I should start my own and just siphon money from people.
lowkeyoperations
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^have you ever mixed on Geithain monitors? Or is this opinion not based on actual use case?
If you had you had worked on, or perhaps even heard them, then you would understand why Geithain are being considered.
The fact that Geithain haven’t sent a set of 50kg studio monitors to Amir for testing is irrelevant to the consideration.
If you had you had worked on, or perhaps even heard them, then you would understand why Geithain are being considered.
The fact that Geithain haven’t sent a set of 50kg studio monitors to Amir for testing is irrelevant to the consideration.
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I've mixed music on a ton of speakers, no gethain, but I also have enough experience with loudspeaker design and life to know such costly speakers with average performance metrics are probably not going to do much for most people's output. Get good sleep, stay active in your niche, trust your tastes, take care of yourself, those are the real tips for getting good mixes.
History shows us time and time again silly priced monitors are not necessary to deliver great music, be it on the composition or mix side of things. Gethain wants 4k each for two ways and 18k for 3 ways? Perhaps your standards differ but no way I'd ever give that kind of money to a company with data worse than what you find in the diy community.
Def the last time I'll ever entertain a "but have you heard them" comment.
History shows us time and time again silly priced monitors are not necessary to deliver great music, be it on the composition or mix side of things. Gethain wants 4k each for two ways and 18k for 3 ways? Perhaps your standards differ but no way I'd ever give that kind of money to a company with data worse than what you find in the diy community.
Def the last time I'll ever entertain a "but have you heard them" comment.
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lowkeyoperations
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Certainly you would never want to entertain listening to a pair of speakers you’re going to spend thousands of hours working on that would just be crazy when you can look at a couple of charts and confirm whatever bias you already have.
Point source, cardioid response and 16” woofers are three good reasons to consider them imo. As described by the OP above the impact of the 16” is really something that isn’t identified in the charts. What data are you referring to as bad? 25-20,000Hz +-3dB with wide dispersion and low distortion doesn’t seem bad.
I haven’t seen any other point source, cardioid studio monitors with 16” drivers for less. But happy for you to point them out as you’re convinced the Geithains are overpriced. Dutch&Dutch seem to be more expensive, have much higher distortion figures, but flatter FR.
Which data chart do you look at to determine how clearly a monitor reveals changes in compressor attack settings?
In my experience time aligned point source monitors do that really well. My Amphions for example do it way better than my Neumanns ever did, but I dont think you’d spot that in any data. Phase is almost never measured here anyways. YMMV.
that would just be crazy when you can look at a couple of charts and confirm whatever bias you already have.Point source, cardioid response and 16” woofers are three good reasons to consider them imo. As described by the OP above the impact of the 16” is really something that isn’t identified in the charts. What data are you referring to as bad? 25-20,000Hz +-3dB with wide dispersion and low distortion doesn’t seem bad.
I haven’t seen any other point source, cardioid studio monitors with 16” drivers for less. But happy for you to point them out as you’re convinced the Geithains are overpriced. Dutch&Dutch seem to be more expensive, have much higher distortion figures, but flatter FR.
Which data chart do you look at to determine how clearly a monitor reveals changes in compressor attack settings?
In my experience time aligned point source monitors do that really well. My Amphions for example do it way better than my Neumanns ever did, but I dont think you’d spot that in any data. Phase is almost never measured here anyways. YMMV.
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I’m sure the Geithains measures good enough to be considered neutral speakers, and as even the objectively best-measuring loudspeakers out there still sounds different to each other it will as usually be down to personal preferences.
Geithains are common in studios in Germany. If those studios for one or another reason didn't reach the expected goal of fine-sounding mixing and mastering results, they would not still use them.
It‘s alwaysa but funny with arguments against proven tools. It's fine if they don’t work for you but using that as an argument that others should choose the same speakers as you, even when some of the users of those “inferior” tools are probably better mixing and mastering engineers than you, it gets a bit silly.
Geithains are common in studios in Germany. If those studios for one or another reason didn't reach the expected goal of fine-sounding mixing and mastering results, they would not still use them.
It‘s alwaysa but funny with arguments against proven tools. It's fine if they don’t work for you but using that as an argument that others should choose the same speakers as you, even when some of the users of those “inferior” tools are probably better mixing and mastering engineers than you, it gets a bit silly.
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