But that´s exactly my opinion - there are loudspeakers, where poor recordings sound better and are more enjoyable then on the named studio speakers. So, again, indeed the choice of the speaker depends on the purpose of listening and the type of music...
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Loudspeakers do not know what they are playing music or test tones they are transducers.
A good loudspeaker simply reproduces the file, transparent and full range and then one which can be adjusted for the room.
That is as good as it gets.
Keith
I think we are talking past each other, willingyl or unwillingly.
The idea that you have a specific loudspeaker to play specific music is ridiculous, a poor loudspeaker does not improve poor recordings the colouration it adds is also added to good recordings.
Really full range and the ability to correct that bass is essential if you like bopping!
Keith
Really full range and the ability to correct that bass is essential if you like bopping!
Keith
I´m not debating about waht a "objective" good loudspeaker is. I´m not countering your statement in that regard. I´m talking about what the "subjective" good loudspeaker is, and that is depending on the purpose and kind of music, one is listening to. If your favourite band only offers compressed music, you can listen to your objective good loudspeaker and have no fun or you listen to you subjective good loudspeaker and have fun. In an extreme and to picture it better: there is music, produced compressed for listening in car radios, small bluethoothboxes and smartphone speakers. While this music can be fun at such speakers, it really hurts an objective high quality speakers. No, this is not ridiculous, but many people (you?) can only think in black and white.
What does your subjective loudspeaker actually do to improve poor recordings?
Keith
Keith
Couldn't you EQ the good speaker to sound more like a lousy speaker? Get the good one and listen to well recorded music and switch your EQ setting to " lousy speaker" and jam to junk.
A switch to a SET amp perhaps?
Keith
Keith
But what about those loudspeakers you do find making poor audio productions sound better, why aren't they making the good audio productions sound more "fun" too in the same way as they did it for the poor audio production?
they do not reveal the bad production. Honestly, I think now it has turned to a noneless discussion - I made my point, depending on the music and depending on the purpose. Think of me the next time, you´re rocking to a current pop song in your car and are disappointed with this song at home on your good speakers. Have fun listening,
Paul
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And how exactly do they do this?
Keith
Keith
I think this is a misunderstanding and/or a myth. Good speakers will play compressed / modern / pop music just fine, and better than any poor speakers.
Current pop songs inevitably sounds even better at home than they do in the car or on "lesser" sound systems.
- Thread Starter
- #53
Wow! Thanks for so many replies! So exciting to have people who are as excited about this as i am!! (My girlfriend thinks im crazy)
I really value the insights you are all providing. I love learning from other peoples experiences, as i don’t have to make so many mistakes!
I would love to believe there is a “perfect speaker” that does it all. In many ways that is what i am looking for! But yes audio is full of compromises! I remember one of the first albums i mixed. An experimental electronic album full of very pure sin-wave like basses. Mixed on my old jbl 305 monitors. The album sounded great on my studio monitors but pretty much every other system the songs sounded thin and weak! (Looking back likely a lack of harmonics on the fundamentals of the bass! And a lack of compression!)
HOWEVER the album sounded better than on my studio monitors on….
A tiny bluetooth speaker! I did some research to get to the bottom of this. Turns out this speaker was doing some processing under the hood. It was adding compression to the low-end to compensate for its small drivers! I learned a valuable lesson back then. The interaction between human, speaker and room is invaluable to the music mixing process.
So to clarify, first and for most, i MIX music. Yes i want the speakers to sound good, and i definitely want clients to get excited when i crank the speakers.
BUT i don't want speakers that make the music sound better than it is. My current setup is a “hifi” setup. And i do feel like the speakers add a bit of color in terms of brightness.
I am shopping for main monitors, i have a aurotone cube I use for when i want to replicate less than ideal conditions. Mono, missing high and low frequencies. Ensuring overall balance in the oh so important midrange.
I want these mains to give me a full picture of the music when it is played on capable systems. I want speakers that give me the accuracy to hear tiny changes in compressors, eq, distortion, tone, etc.
Speakers that make it easier to mix!
I hope this helps with the discussion surrounding what these speakers are used for!
I really value the insights you are all providing. I love learning from other peoples experiences, as i don’t have to make so many mistakes!
I would love to believe there is a “perfect speaker” that does it all. In many ways that is what i am looking for! But yes audio is full of compromises! I remember one of the first albums i mixed. An experimental electronic album full of very pure sin-wave like basses. Mixed on my old jbl 305 monitors. The album sounded great on my studio monitors but pretty much every other system the songs sounded thin and weak! (Looking back likely a lack of harmonics on the fundamentals of the bass! And a lack of compression!)
HOWEVER the album sounded better than on my studio monitors on….
A tiny bluetooth speaker! I did some research to get to the bottom of this. Turns out this speaker was doing some processing under the hood. It was adding compression to the low-end to compensate for its small drivers! I learned a valuable lesson back then. The interaction between human, speaker and room is invaluable to the music mixing process.
So to clarify, first and for most, i MIX music. Yes i want the speakers to sound good, and i definitely want clients to get excited when i crank the speakers.
BUT i don't want speakers that make the music sound better than it is. My current setup is a “hifi” setup. And i do feel like the speakers add a bit of color in terms of brightness.
I am shopping for main monitors, i have a aurotone cube I use for when i want to replicate less than ideal conditions. Mono, missing high and low frequencies. Ensuring overall balance in the oh so important midrange.
I want these mains to give me a full picture of the music when it is played on capable systems. I want speakers that give me the accuracy to hear tiny changes in compressors, eq, distortion, tone, etc.
Speakers that make it easier to mix!
I hope this helps with the discussion surrounding what these speakers are used for!
That sounds like anything like Geithain and Genelec are the right way to go for you - They can deliver such things in outstanding quality (my opinion). Many people are hyped about the Dutch & Dutch 8c (didn´t hear them yet but they must be insanely good for that). To add another manufacturer: maybe you get the chance to listen to PSI speaker as well, as I liked them also very much in that regard.
- Thread Starter
- #55
Are you describing the depth of the speaker? Meaning a very compressed recording will sound present on a less than ideal speaker but will sound shallow with less front to back on a higher quality system? I have personally not heard a “horned” speaker yet. I am excited to go to club der visionaere and hear these bullfrog speakers with a horned tweeter!
oooh the bullfrog - I´m eagerly waiting to hear them next year at the highend show. Yesterday I´ve been at a dealers location, who mentions at his homepage that he sells martion - turned out he didn´t have them. Really hard to get a demo on it...
prestigetone
Senior Member
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- 396
Take what people on here say with a grain of salt. Some are dealers and have a strong bias towards the products they sell.
I think some of these companies have poor product support still have a great sounding product. Well measuring speakers are great but for some producers or engineers they are looking for sound to help them make decisions. It's a bit like a cooking tool. All 8" chefs knives need to be that length but the handle and the weighting mean different things to different people as does the type of metal used. Just like a speaker doesn't know what it is playing, a listener can't shut off what they like or prefer.
Have you thought about PMC or Neumann 420? I think for mixing those are up there. Though I see more often ATC in studios.
Do you perhaps have examples of a few tracks you consider to be compressed music that won't work on objectively good loudspeakers? It would be interesting to test.
- Thread Starter
- #59
Hello friends!
Just finished demoing atc, psi, genelec and geithain side by side in a showroom.
It truly came down to a couple things.
I loved the atc sound BUT i didnt sound nearly as “real” as geithain. The low end had the pressure i was looking for BUT only when paired with Trinnov.
Initially i decided the atc had too much mid range, but when paired with trinnov it became somewhat of a dream speaker. Really sounded like a great speaker. However geithain sounded more real. More open. Without trinnov!! Without using them both in my studio for a while, i dont think i could make a definitive decision on which setup works better for me.
This isn’t a option though. And in order to stay in budget i would have to select the atc scm25 which when compared to the scm50 i felt sounded a bit too “closed” in presentation.
Psi sounded good but was somewhere in between atc and geithain. Real and yet still a”speaker”.
Genelec lacked the low end extension i desire.
In fact they all lacked the low end extension i desire except geithain RL901K.
So i am officially a Geithain fanboy.
Which brings me to my final decision that i could perhaps use some wisdom on.
I could purchase the RL901K brand new from geithain for somewhere around 12.5k after taxes removed.
But as mentioned in my original post, there is someone in Warsaw selling these exact speakers for 3k LESS! He said i can come listen to the speakers and ensure they are in working order…
I am tempted to save the money, however i am nervous as i do live far from Germany in case of need of repair… (still worth it in my opinion for the marvelous sound quality they are producing.)
Does anyone have experience buying used studio monitors? Should i be concerned about them breaking down?
Any advice would be welcome!
Thanks
Drdredd
Just finished demoing atc, psi, genelec and geithain side by side in a showroom.
It truly came down to a couple things.
I loved the atc sound BUT i didnt sound nearly as “real” as geithain. The low end had the pressure i was looking for BUT only when paired with Trinnov.
Initially i decided the atc had too much mid range, but when paired with trinnov it became somewhat of a dream speaker. Really sounded like a great speaker. However geithain sounded more real. More open. Without trinnov!! Without using them both in my studio for a while, i dont think i could make a definitive decision on which setup works better for me.
This isn’t a option though. And in order to stay in budget i would have to select the atc scm25 which when compared to the scm50 i felt sounded a bit too “closed” in presentation.
Psi sounded good but was somewhere in between atc and geithain. Real and yet still a”speaker”.
Genelec lacked the low end extension i desire.
In fact they all lacked the low end extension i desire except geithain RL901K.
So i am officially a Geithain fanboy.
Which brings me to my final decision that i could perhaps use some wisdom on.
I could purchase the RL901K brand new from geithain for somewhere around 12.5k after taxes removed.
But as mentioned in my original post, there is someone in Warsaw selling these exact speakers for 3k LESS! He said i can come listen to the speakers and ensure they are in working order…
I am tempted to save the money, however i am nervous as i do live far from Germany in case of need of repair… (still worth it in my opinion for the marvelous sound quality they are producing.)
Does anyone have experience buying used studio monitors? Should i be concerned about them breaking down?
Any advice would be welcome!
Thanks
Drdredd
prestigetone
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2021
- Messages
- 344
- Likes
- 396
If you can buy them new from the manufacturer and drive them home, sure no problem. Otherwise I would proceed with caution.
I've seen the used pair you're talking about and they look to be in great condition, but are 10 years old and I've seen a few people say the foaming on the actual speakers or the foam under the drivers where they meet the cabinet need to be redone fairly frequently. This is not cheap.
I'd be concerned about them not only breaking down but also the shipping. If you have to ship these, it's not even worth considering. They are notorious at this point for improperly packing the speakers. I've been contacted by now 5 people who say they received damaged speakers. This is in addition to the three pairs that I received as incorrect or were damaged. One was from a dealer who carries lots of high end stuff and they had some speakers delivered to them and the speakers were busted up in transit.
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