Geithain RL 901K vs Neumann KH420

[feitaishi]

Take some pics when you receive them and share with us!

I hesitated a while between the RL901K and the Mantas at the end of my journey, and eventually went for the Mantas.

However I haven't given up on the idea of getting a pair...

getting a pair of geithain subwoofers!

 

[Pearljam5000]

How much of difference in bass output and accuracy is there when Geithains are 16 inch and Neumanns are only 10 inch?

 

[poopy]

getting a pair of geithain subwoofers!

Not sure I'd put that kind of money in subs TBH.

Already I find the RL901K very pricey. Above all given that they have never updated the design.

In 2024 I'd expect digital inputs, beefier amps and EQ possibilities as a minimum. Hence, my choice for the Mantas.

But they certainly sound amazing. Second hand they are still expensive.

 

[poopy]

How much of difference in bass output and accuracy is there when Geithains are 16 inch and Neumanns are only 10 inch?

Even with 16 inch, I'd still use subs to get a flatter response.

 

[feitaishi]

Even with 16 inch, I'd still use subs to get a flatter response.

is any other cardiod sub on the market?

 

[sigbergaudio]

is any other cardiod sub on the market?

Not that I am aware of. But I also don't think we have any data confirming that a cardioid subwoofer will be a better solution than multiple conventional subs in a domestic environment.

I am not saying it won't be better, I'm saying we don't know.

 

[dominikz]

Not that I am aware of. But I also don't think we have any data confirming that a cardioid subwoofer will be a better solution than multiple conventional subs in a domestic environment.

I am not saying it won't be better, I'm saying we don't know.

I wonder what would be even a theoretical benefit of a cardioid subwoofer?

I'm asking this assuming what seems to me like typical subwoofer use:

1. Crossover at 80Hz or below, and
2. Keeping the sub reasonably close to the walls (which pushes SBIR to >>80Hz, i.e. out of the subwoofer's passband).

Cardioid bass for full-range speakers makes sense, of course, because it allows you to avoid the main SBIR dip for close-to-wall loudspeaker placement; but I struggle to see any benefit in case of separate subwoofers.

 

[Purité Audio]

Not sure I'd put that kind of money in subs TBH.

Already I find the RL901K very pricey. Above all given that they have never updated the design.

In 2024 I'd expect digital inputs, beefier amps and EQ possibilities as a minimum. Hence, my choice for the Mantas.

But they certainly sound amazing. Second hand they are still expensive.

Quite a few traditional manufacturers who choose to plough the same furrow, I would be really in to hear their reasoning.
Don’t have the staff to implement the new tech,
Don’t have the investment needed,
Believe that their product is already good enough and nothing to improve,
existing customers wouldn’t like it.
Keith

 

[drdredd]

Hello all,

Dr Dredd reporting in!

The MEG RL901K in Satin Walnut arrived a little over a week ago. They took about 15 weeks to arrive. They were built to order so this is fair to me.
They arrived in flawless condition. Well packaged with great care.
I plan on posting better pictures as well as any in room measurements i have taken this far soon.
I haven’t fully dived into measurements for final listening position and speaker placement (gonna need to phone a friend, 100lbs each!) but i have them in the room in an equilateral triangle on 4 isopuck76 and custom stands i built out of mdf filled with sand and sealed with silicone.

*beginning of subjective experience

I haven’t gotten to measure simply because i have been busy listening… pretty much non-stop.
I will keep the superlative's to a minimum.
I have been going through my favorite records and all of the top 40s from the last 6 decades. It has become very apparent which records were diligently recorded, mixed and mastered.
Some songs have become almost unlistenable because of the balance, noise, or distortion. They have given me a new level of connection to the music. The great songs sound unreal, like no speaker is there, makes you want to dance.. etc.
can clearly hear a 1db change, 0.5db change, clear as day. Compressors eq very apparent.
Bass for days and very deep. No headroom issues whatsoever (regardless of amp power). The walls start shaking before i get to noticeable distortion.
Couldn’t be happier with the purchase.

*end of subjective experience

I am currently using a combination of rew and open sound meter to take measurements with a omni measurement microphone (calibrated with calibration file included with mic).
My knowledge is limited to reading phase data, tonal balance and waterfall data. If you guys know of any resources on how to take and include relevant data thoroughly (as well as understand) I would be most delighted to provide.

The room is a modified garage. Airtight but has its flaws. There is some sound leakages and it is not perfectly symmetrical, thinner walls. The treatment inside helps substantially. The walls are covered 2/3 surface area by 3” rockwool panels. The front corners have 6” rockwool infront of 9” pink fluffy. The first reflection points LR and cloud above have the same.
I forget exact measurements but something like 18’x23’x9’ WxLxH.
I plan on moving to a dedicated, permanent and larger space, but this works for now.

Open to any questions!

Here are a couple of quick pics i took on my phone.

Kind Regards,
Dr Dredd

 

[Pearljam5000]

Hello all,

Dr Dredd reporting in!

The MEG RL901K in Satin Walnut arrived a little over a week ago. They took about 15 weeks to arrive. They were built to order so this is fair to me.
They arrived in flawless condition. Well packaged with great care.
I plan on posting better pictures as well as any in room measurements i have taken this far soon.
I haven’t fully dived into measurements for final listening position and speaker placement (gonna need to phone a friend, 100lbs each!) but i have them in the room in an equilateral triangle on 4 isopuck76 and custom stands i built out of mdf filled with sand and sealed with silicone.

*beginning of subjective experience

I haven’t gotten to measure simply because i have been busy listening… pretty much non-stop.
I will keep the superlative's to a minimum.
I have been going through my favorite records and all of the top 40s from the last 6 decades. It has become very apparent which records were diligently recorded, mixed and mastered.
Some songs have become almost unlistenable because of the balance, noise, or distortion. They have given me a new level of connection to the music. The great songs sound unreal, like no speaker is there, makes you want to dance.. etc.
can clearly hear a 1db change, 0.5db change, clear as day. Compressors eq very apparent.
Bass for days and very deep. No headroom issues whatsoever (regardless of amp power). The walls start shaking before i get to noticeable distortion.
Couldn’t be happier with the purchase.

*end of subjective experience

I am currently using a combination of rew and open sound meter to take measurements with a omni measurement microphone (calibrated with calibration file included with mic).
My knowledge is limited to reading phase data, tonal balance and waterfall data. If you guys know of any resources on how to take and include relevant data thoroughly (as well as understand) I would be most delighted to provide.

The room is a modified garage. Airtight but has its flaws. There is some sound leakages and it is not perfectly symmetrical, thinner walls. The treatment inside helps substantially. The walls are covered 2/3 surface area by 3” rockwool panels. The front corners have 6” rockwool infront of 9” pink fluffy. The first reflection points LR and cloud above have the same.
I forget exact measurements but something like 18’x23’x9’ WxLxH.
I plan on moving to a dedicated, permanent and larger space, but this works for now.

Open to any questions!

Here are a couple of quick pics i took on my phone.

Kind Regards,
Dr Dredd

Wow, amazing
Congrats

 

[Puddingbuks]

@drdredd Wow!

I hope you enjoy them!

 

[boxerfan88]

Ooo … nice! They look great!

Do share the measurement mdat … am curious to see the step response..

 

[Berlin]

I'm glad to read that the speakers arrived in perfect condition. If I remember correctly, someone here reported that they had never received an undamaged delivery from Geihain... By the way, I like the veneer of your speakers...

 

[Paffi]

Congratulations, I wish you many joyful listening hours.

 

[drdredd]

Not sure I'd put that kind of money in subs TBH.

Already I find the RL901K very pricey. Above all given that they have never updated the design.

In 2024 I'd expect digital inputs, beefier amps and EQ possibilities as a minimum. Hence, my choice for the Mantas.

But they certainly sound amazing. Second hand they are still

I wonder what would be even a theoretical benefit of a cardioid subwoofer?

I'm asking this assuming what seems to me like typical subwoofer use:

1. Crossover at 80Hz or below, and
2. Keeping the sub reasonably close to the walls (which pushes SBIR to >>80Hz, i.e. out of the subwoofer's passband).

Cardioid bass for full-range speakers makes sense, of course, because it allows you to avoid the main SBIR dip for close-to-wall loudspeaker placement; but I struggle to see any benefit in case of separate subwoofers.

Maybe late to the conversation, but for me personally i prefer the cardioid design for stereo localization.
This may sound ridiculous considering bass is largely considered omni, but in my old set up i kept my sub dead center in between the speakers even though the bass response of the sub was more even when located slightly to the left of the left main.
I found the sub being not center to be very distracting. (Especially when crossing over high)
So now with RL901K in my possession. I have essentially my subs at the same position as my LR main creating a beautifully accurate stereo field down to sub region. With no issues with sbir because of cardioid.
I was surprised to hear some modern tracks with stereo kicks….
Also walking behind the RL901K is actually like putting a high pass signal on the sound. I’m sure keeping that bass from the front corners must help with room loading and modes.

 

[drdredd]

Not sure I'd put that kind of money in subs TBH.

Already I find the RL901K very pricey. Above all given that they have never updated the design.

In 2024 I'd expect digital inputs, beefier amps and EQ possibilities as a minimum. Hence, my choice for the Mantas.

But they certainly sound amazing. Second hand they are still expensive

No doubt they are expensive! Personally i have no use for digital inputs (maybe i will in the future) as far as built in eq, i feel most studios are implementing sonarworks or trinnov and they implement pretty much all the eq you could want!

 

[drdredd]

I'm glad to read that the speakers arrived in perfect condition. If I remember correctly, someone here reported that they had never received an undamaged delivery from Geihain... By the way, I like the veneer of your speakers...

So glad they arrived in good condition, it is a long journey over seas.
Although thanks to shipping warnings from here, i had the utmost confidence with double insurance on my order in preparation!
I too was gladly surprised with the veneer! Stunning! The natural patterns of the wood were showcased in such a masterful way. Truly a great treat

 

[348montesa]

I was going to link to this. They do not rate it highly and they are in Germany.

Regarding what you write here about the Gethains in the review by Sound and Recording it is simply BS.

For the people that can't read German here is the "Fazit" (in toto, btw):

"With the RL 944K1, Musikelectronic Geithain has provided us with the most compact 3-way monitors with a cardioid bass response from the legendary RL series for testing. The monitor, crafted with meticulous precision and attention to detail in Geithain's workshop, can be used effectively even in confined spaces due to its manageable size. Thanks to the coaxial driver arrangement, close listening distances are also not an issue. Room modes, which can often be particularly disruptive in small spaces, are kept somewhat under control by the cardioid bass response.

The RL 944K1 delivers everything expected from a nearfield monitor, but its performance and capabilities go far beyond that. However, some might find their enthusiasm for the RL 944K1 dampened by its price; nearly €9,000 for a pair is no small amount. On the other hand, a look at the prices of used and significantly older Geithain monitors shows that this is indeed a worthwhile investment. Product consistency and value retention are virtues that, unfortunately, have been somewhat forgotten in many modern products—qualities that are still upheld at Geithain."

In this specific bracket (NF monitors) the RL 934K are even a notch better according to people who have had both...