Gaia Isolation anything in this?

[Matias]

In the name of science I just disassembled my Gaia 2 and took a picture so that you all can see inside.

The center is a dense plastic that fits into the rubber hole. The chassis is probably chrome plated steel because it is heavy. The base that makes contact to the floor is a concave rubber, so that when the speaker weights it down, it sucks the floor in quite a strong manner. Makes moving the speaker very difficult, so for testing better put a cloth between them and the floor until the final position is found, then remove the cloth. On top is the screw with different thread terminations depending on the thread the speaker uses, and between them 2 washers to fix one to the top and the other to the bottom.

Installation instructions say that all 4 logos must face forward for best effect. That is both the long axis of the center plastic, and also promotes the brand, double win in their book.

As far as I know the design is patented.

Edit: From what I see in their drawing, the rubber hole also has a concave side on the inside, probably sucking the top chassis the same way the bottom rubber sucks the floor.

Edit 2: Since they are designed to be used with a certain weight range, it is probably when both concave rubbers are part way deflected, so that the speaker is "floating" to the rubbers' mechanical compliance. Like a piston compressed between 2 air bags.

 

[dougi]

I used them to replace the feet on my VPI Scout turntable, as the rubber on the stock feet had perished. They worked much better than the stock ones for that application, in terms of iolation from the rack. They were also cheaper than any of the VPI options.

 

[dorakeg]

These definitely work. But:

-How effective these are depends on how problematic your room is, when it comes exclusively to sympathetic resonances. They don't really help outside that particular issue.
-Bookshelves and towers benefit some (or very little), while a subwoofer is the best case use.
-There are equivalent solutions that don't even exceed a cost of $100.

Yes, fully agreed. There are much cheaper solutions that those ulra expensive feets...

 

[dorakeg]

In the name of science I just disassembled my Gaia 2 and took a picture so that you all can see inside.

The center is a dense plastic that fits into the rubber hole. The chassis is probably chrome plated steel because it is heavy. The base that makes contact to the floor is a concave rubber, so that when the speaker weights it down, it sucks the floor in quite a strong manner. Makes moving the speaker very difficult, so for testing better put a cloth between them and the floor until the final position is found, then remove the cloth. On top is the screw with different thread terminations depending on the thread the speaker uses, and between them 2 washers to fix one to the top and the other to the bottom.

Installation instructions say that all 4 logos must face forward for best effect. That is both the long axis of the center plastic, and also promotes the brand, double win in their book.

As far as I know the design is patented.

View attachment 232647

Edit: From what I see in their drawing, the rubber hole also has a concave side on the inside, probably sucking the top chassis the same way the bottom rubber sucks the floor.

View attachment 232652

Nice!! Thanks for sharing the internal of the isolation feet!!

 

[bo_knows]

In the name of science I just disassembled my Gaia 2 and took a picture so that you all can see inside.

The center is a dense plastic that fits into the rubber hole. The chassis is probably chrome plated steel because it is heavy. The base that makes contact to the floor is a concave rubber, so that when the speaker weights it down, it sucks the floor in quite a strong manner. Makes moving the speaker very difficult, so for testing better put a cloth between them and the floor until the final position is found, then remove the cloth. On top is the screw with different thread terminations depending on the thread the speaker uses, and between them 2 washers to fix one to the top and the other to the bottom.

Installation instructions say that all 4 logos must face forward for best effect. That is both the long axis of the center plastic, and also promotes the brand, double win in their book.

As far as I know the design is patented.

View attachment 232647

Edit: From what I see in their drawing, the rubber hole also has a concave side on the inside, probably sucking the top chassis the same way the bottom rubber sucks the floor.

View attachment 232652

I have Gaia III on my KEF R500 and I thought they made bass less resonate through the room's engineered wood floor glued to the concrete foundation. Since I upgraded to KEF Ref3, I can't use them due to the weight restriction and will put them up for sale. The question that I have now is, if KEF engineers tuned the speaker while being on spikes, why would I "mess" with that? If the Gaia's feet improve the performance of the speakers, why speaker manufacturers are not using them? If KEF engineers are obsessed with the minute details on the reference/blade line, and these isolators are offering substantial increases in performance, why are they overlooked? Food for thought.

 

[dorakeg]

The question that I have now is, if KEF engineers tuned the speaker while being on spikes, why would I "mess" with that? If the Gaia's feet improve the performance of the speakers, why speaker manufacturers are not using them? If KEF engineers are obsessed with the minute details on the reference/blade line, and these isolators are offering substantial increases in performance, why are they overlooked? Food for thought.

Such question often comes up in many many forums, not just audio related.

No, they are not overlooked. Rather, the pricing and profit margin limits what engineers could put into a pair of speakers. In other words, COST.

Raw materials and manufacturing process actually makes up a small fraction of the overall price of the speaker. Eg. for a pair of KE R3 speakers, the selling price is around USD2000. I won't be surprise if the manufacutring cost is just around $200. If you ask what happens to that $1800?? Easily 1/3-1/2 of it goes to the dealer, the rest will be like shipping, marketing, R&D cost. KEF also need to feed their staff, dividends for their investors etc....

A set of Gaia feets cost around USD200. Even if isoacoustics sell it to KEF for just $30, its still a significant portion of the manufacturing cost. And, its just speaker feet!!

If you wonder why delaers need such margins, speakers are not supermarket items or gadgets where they just fly off the shelves. Dealers will only push your product if the margins are worth while for them to do it. Else, they don't.


Btw, check out the crossover and internal wiring of the KEF R300. I think its not that difficult to estimate the cost of the components.

KEF R3 Speaker Review

Is the Klippel system able to measure individual drivers and port ?? If one driver can be separated from the rest, sure. With the port, that is not possible of course. If all people are doing is sticking a mic at the port and running the sweep, I can do that as well.

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Holmz]

This is what the manufacturer measured: no change in frequency response, but a lot less cabinet vibration, which probably is the reduction in IMD show in the 1st post.

Is the velocity peak velocity?
I can see where velocity would be appropriate say in a Doppler calculation, but I am wondering if acceleration would be a better metric (G)?

 

[Chrispy]

Are there any blinded level matched quick switching tests of this? On what type of flooring? With what kind of footings on basic subs/speakers? Seems a very expensive and not particularly effective way of dealing with such....

 

[bo_knows]

Such question often comes up in many many forums, not just audio related.

No, they are not overlooked. Rather, the pricing and profit margin limits what engineers could put into a pair of speakers. In other words, COST.

Raw materials and manufacturing process actually makes up a small fraction of the overall price of the speaker. Eg. for a pair of KE R3 speakers, the selling price is around USD2000. I won't be surprise if the manufacutring cost is just around $200. If you ask what happens to that $1800?? Easily 1/3-1/2 of it goes to the dealer, the rest will be like shipping, marketing, R&D cost. KEF also need to feed their staff, dividends for their investors etc....

A set of Gaia feets cost around USD200. Even if isoacoustics sell it to KEF for just $30, its still a significant portion of the manufacturing cost. And, its just speaker feet!!

If you wonder why delaers need such margins, speakers are not supermarket items or gadgets where they just fly off the shelves. Dealers will only push your product if the margins are worth while for them to do it. Else, they don't.


Btw, check out the crossover and internal wiring of the KEF R300. I think its not that difficult to estimate the cost of the components.

KEF R3 Speaker Review

Is the Klippel system able to measure individual drivers and port ?? If one driver can be separated from the rest, sure. With the port, that is not possible of course. If all people are doing is sticking a mic at the port and running the sweep, I can do that as well.

www.audiosciencereview.com

The original blade prototype was "cost no object" project. The speaker's body was made out of carbon fiber.
If the isolation feet would make a big difference, I would think KEF would come up with their own. Somehow I don't buy the cost as the excuse for their blade series. I mean B&W N801 D4 as an example have casters built into their bottom plate. I would think this type of implementation is more expensive than isolation feet. The same goes for the top speaker brands (Wilson Audio, Focal, TAD reference 1 and etc.). The only top company that I know of that sells expensive isolators for their speakers is Magico. https://www.magicoaudio.com/mpod

"The design of the MPOD is based on the scientific principles of Constrained Layer Damping (CLD), an extremely effective way to channel unwanted vibrations away from a component and its platform. The robust-yet-elegant MPOD is comprised of multiple machined aircraft-aluminum and tungsten steel parts that, when assembled, form a vertical stack. A solid pure-copper substrate center section is sandwiched by a top and bottom layer of ISODAMP a thermoplastic material that, when compressed against the copper substrate, facilitates the constrained layer damping function and dissipates unwanted energy virtually immediately."

 

[Thomas_A]

Isolation can be bought for $30, weight-adapted for proper tuning, eg Sonic Design damping feet. DIY solutions can be almost for free.

 

[Thomas_A]

Are there any blinded level matched quick switching tests of this? On what type of flooring? With what kind of footings on basic subs/speakers? Seems a very expensive and not particularly effective way of dealing with such....

Isolation works, but audible issues may or may not occur. It's a case by case basis.

One example of isolation vs. "hard" coupling, sound output at a certain frequency:
#139

Acceleration of cabinet, speaker on floor:
#1

 

[dorakeg]

The original blade prototype was "cost no object" project.

I will never believe there is such thing as "cost no object". Because everything is about cost. If cost is no object, the sky would be the limit.

 

[killdozzer]

I said this in Audioholics as well; this is the case where there is SOME benefit, but it doesn't follow the expenditure curvature. You SHOULD decouple, but the same decoupling result you can get with a fraction of the expenses.

In this product a small portion of the price goes into the function, and then a HUUUGE portion of the cost goes into bling and brand.

My 2 cents is this: always decouple, but choose these only if you think the looks are worth the price.

 

[NADKEF listener]

Bought the Gaia 2, second hand, for my KEF R900 and later used these for my new R11, just for esthetics. Never had the illusion that it would do miracles for the sound and can’t say it did…

 

[Lawhaus]

Bought the Gaia 2, second hand, for my KEF R900 and later used these for my new R11, just for esthetics. Never had the illusion that it would do miracles for the sound and can’t say it did…

Can you please share some more of your experience?

Do you run your R11’s with a sub? Crossover or full range? What kind of floor do you have?

I’ve been eyeing these for my R11’s for a very long time. Isoscoustics product worked amazing for my sub, but I’m afraid of how much impact it will make on my R11’s.

 

[NADKEF listener]

I run the R11 w/o sub. I don’t think you need that for normal listening. 2 more woofers compared to the R900. Have a separate samsung 990 soundbar for the tv. As said the Gaia is just for the looks. Think my choice for the NAD M23 made a bigger impact. My impression is that the R11 provides a fuller and better stereo sound in the whole room. My room is 70 sqm. Wood floor

 

[Tim Link]

This weekend I tried decoupling my speakers from the vintage stereo console they are sitting on. I could feel the speakers vibrating and the console vibrating along with them so I decided it was worth a try. I was able to get all tactile sense of vibration out of the cabinet by putting 3 folded fluffy towels on the console and then putting the speakers on the towels. I think I like it better. It seems a little brighter, so maybe they console vibrations were adding some lower frequency weight to the sound? What confuses me is exactly how the vibration is getting transferred to the old console. If the woofer are moving forward and back I'd suppose the cabinet is mostly moving forward and back too. So how would that transmit vibration to the floor or the speaker stand or table? Is it really all moving forward and back or does the speaker cabinet deform and end up just vibrating in all directions like a blob of Jello?

 

[fpitas]

This weekend I tried decoupling my speakers from the vintage stereo console they are sitting on. I could feel the speakers vibrating and the console vibrating along with them so I decided it was worth a try. I was able to get all tactile sense of vibration out of the cabinet by putting 3 folded fluffy towels on the console and then putting the speakers on the towels. I think I like it better. It seems a little brighter, so maybe they console vibrations were adding some lower frequency weight to the sound? What confuses me is exactly how the vibration is getting transferred to the old console. If the woofer are moving forward and back I'd suppose the cabinet is mostly moving forward and back too. So how would that transmit vibration to the floor or the speaker stand or table? Is it really all moving forward and back or does the speaker cabinet deform and end up just vibrating in all directions like a blob of Jello?

The panels deform, and the cabinet rocks fore and aft.

Trust me, it takes extensive bracing to reduce panel flexure significantly.

 

[Tim Link]

I removed my folded fluffy towel isolation tonight and it sounds a lot better. I think having all that towel right next to the speakers was absorbing sound in a bad way. The isolation itself is probably a good thing but I need to do it without introducing a bunch of acoustic absorption in the vicinity of the speakers. That's my guess.

 

[Chrispy]

I removed my folded fluffy towel isolation tonight and it sounds a lot better. I think having all that towel right next to the speakers was absorbing sound in a bad way. The isolation itself is probably a good thing but I need to do it without introducing a bunch of acoustic absorption in the vicinity of the speakers. That's my guess.

Could be the height difference more than the absorption as a guess. Not that the layers of absorption aren't as least as good as the silly footers.