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Fuses do affect sound, the question is how much

DonH56

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At those frequencies, the slightest variation in construction matters. That is different than the concept that inherently the wire has different transfer function from one direction to the other. I hope we are in agreement on this. :)

An ideal wire would be the same; a practical wire is not. But for (at) audio I really don't care... For me, this whole debate falls into the "much ado about nothing" category, except it ain't "nothing" for everybody, I guess. Another #^$! absolute.
 

audio2design

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You said you didn't commit said sin yet committed it again! You haven't shown directivity in anything yet are making an assertion that it must exist. By that rule, everything can exist and no basis needs to be established first.


Go ahead and prove directionality of the fuses in RF gear. I used to repair them for a living and not once worried about said directionality.

Until you show such a thing, you are out of line claiming it exists.


You haven't shown this either. You think if I go to talk to Ham radio operators, they use directional cables?

Really, you don't seem to believe in your own rule in any form of fashion. Instead you are assuming that no one here understands RF so you can spit out what you want and have that be accepted at face value.

Your lack of knowledge in an area does not mean something is not true. As.DonH56 has pointed out this is both self evident and more than proven. That is when someone is not trying to make directionality. However if you try getting effects well below GHz would not be hard on something that is technically a cable and using purely parasitics with a non homogenous construction. If you cannot do the mental exercise to understand the conditions for that don't blame me.
 

Sal1950

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am almost certain Phase Linear did not based on the number of times I had to replace speakers after the outputs shorted the speaker terminals to supply rail and cooked them.
You should have heard the noise created when my PL 700B blew up into my Klipsch LaScala's.
I think it cracked my 80 yo house plaster in a couple places. LOL
 

DonH56

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You should have heard the noise created when my PL 700B blew up into my Klipsch LaScala's.
I think it cracked my 80 yo house plaster in a couple places. LOL

:) I had an original Blaze Linear 700. Sounded OK, incredible power, and the most unreliable amp I ever owned.
 

mhardy6647

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:) I had an original Blaze Linear 700. Sounded OK, incredible power, and the most unreliable amp I ever owned.
Guess you never owned a Dynaco 400 ;)
Oh, and maybe not a GAS Ampzilla, either. :cool:

One of each serving as ballast in the basement here.
 

DonH56

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Guess you never owned a Dynaco 400 ;)
Oh, and maybe not a GAS Ampzilla, either. :cool:

One of each serving as ballast in the basement here.

Yes to both, and many others, though in many cases I was the repair tech and not the actual owner. Many of them were in my system for a day or a year. The P(B)L 700 reigns as king of self destruction, and unfortunately it was not just just "self".

The 400 was a mixed bag for me, pretty reliable most of the time, sometimes a pain to repair. I honestly don't remember much about it -- I did not have one in my system very much. The Ampzillas I saw suffered mainly from poor construction by people who had not built something like that before, and thermal issues because it ran pretty durn hot. I built a couple for friends and made sure they had a good fan included for the "wind tunnel" and used extended feet to get it a little higher off the floor/shelf beneath. Which reminds me how often I had to warn people that setting it on the carpet behind their console was NOT a good idea! It was the 70's and thick hairy carpets were everywhere...
 

mhardy6647

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Only one Flame Linear component here -- a 200B (rather weird beast; I know very little about it).
I don't think I've ever had the chutzpah to plug it in!

Flame Linear 200B and friends.JPG
 

DonH56

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Only one Flame Linear component here -- a 200B (rather weird beast; I know very little about it).
I don't think I've ever had the chutzpah to plug it in!

View attachment 152348

I don't remember quite when they moved from the original to the A and B series models. I do remember there was a line of amps including the 700, 400, 300, and 200 -- the 200 was the "baby" with the lowest power in the line. We sold a bunch of 200, 400, and 700 models but I can't recall ever seeing a 300 except on a shelf in the display. IIRC it replaced the 200 but I am not really sure why... I was focused on career and family by the mid to late 1980's and Bob had moved on so I lost track and forgot some of those early days.

Again based on long-ago foggy memories, the B series in general and 200/400 specifically were more reliable than the 700 or 700A. But yah, I'd plug it into a Variac to bring it up slowly, and into a test load with a fuse. :)
 

mhardy6647

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I learned a long time ago (and the hard way) to use cannon fodder loudspeakers whenever testing direct-coupled soiled state solid state amps. :facepalm:
 

DonH56

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I learned a long time ago (and the hard way) to use cannon fodder loudspeakers whenever testing direct-coupled soiled state solid state amps. :facepalm:

The 700 had a switch on the back for ac or direct (dc) coupling but it just added a cap in series with the input IIRC. The output was always direct coupled, and a little too often directly to the B+ rail...
 

MakeMineVinyl

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The 700 had a switch on the back for ac or direct (dc) coupling but it just added a cap in series with the input IIRC. The output was always direct coupled, and a little too often directly to the B+ rail...
Whatever people may say that tubes are 'distortion generators', the output transformer does provide more safety against DC rail -->> speaker voice coil. Sure, reliability is better now than in the past, but as Dirty Harry says: "Do you feel lucky? Well, do you punk?" ;)
 

3dbinCanada

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At those frequencies, the slightest variation in construction matters. That is different than the concept that inherently the wire has different transfer function from one direction to the other. I hope we are in agreement on this. :)

aka direction... Like I posted earlier, these manufacturing defects weren't specifically designed into the cable to make them directional. It really is an arguement about semantics.
 

egellings

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After working at GHz frequencies, when I return to audio ones, I just get out and walk.
 

amirm

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aka direction...
No, variation in measurements is not direction. Nothing about the construction of such cables is done to make one direction better than the other.

If I measure resistance of 1 meter of a cable, I can get all kinds of variations just by how I terminate each end. This doesn't point to any directionality of the wire. As I said, it is just natural variations in situations where this matters.
 

amirm

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Your lack of knowledge in an area does not mean something is not true. As.DonH56 has pointed out this is both self evident and more than proven.
You have no idea what he said and what it means. I have worked with RF since I was little. I used to repair them for a living. Go ahead and show me an RF cable that has directions on it. Go ahead. We will wait. Until then, then only person who doesn't know what he is saying is you with that comment about directionality and sound changing.
 

amirm

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An ideal wire would be the same; a practical wire is not. But for (at) audio I really don't care... For me, this whole debate falls into the "much ado about nothing" category, except it ain't "nothing" for everybody, I guess. Another #^$! absolute.
As I just explained, getting variations from ideal is fine but has nothing to do with this topic Don. People are not saying audio cables measure different one direction vs the other. They are claiming that it is designed to work better in one direction than the other.

I have worked with RF to low Gigahertz frequencies and yet to see any cable advertised as being directional. Sure, if you switch it end to end maybe you find some differences due to minor factors like you mention but that is not by design.

I used to work in pro video space where SDI is used for serial communication over coax. Current standard goes up to 12 GHz. Belden 194A is a common cable for such use: https://catalog.belden.com/techdata/EN/1694A_techdata.pdf

There is not one word in there about directionality. Just bandwidth vs distance.

Long time ago I read a statement from Belden on directional cables. They said they pull the cable in certain direction and they can indicate such to customers but that there is no benefit or difference at all there.

So no, there is no support for directionality of wire much less fuses in RF circuits either. This is just a made up concept by audiophiles. I know you know all of this so please don't give ammunition to likes of @audio2design to run with when they have no clue about any of this.
 

3dbinCanada

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No, variation in measurements is not direction. Nothing about the construction of such cables is done to make one direction better than the other.

If I measure resistance of 1 meter of a cable, I can get all kinds of variations just by how I terminate each end. This doesn't point to any directionality of the wire. As I said, it is just natural variations in situations where this matters.

We agree.
 

DonH56

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It is not measurement variation, it is real and repeatable.

And has nothing to do with audio.

I would not have used the word "directional" as that implies something different to me than a wire that looks different from one end than the other (at several GHz).

Enough OT from me.
 

3dbinCanada

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It is not measurement variation, it is real and repeatable.

And has nothing to do with audio.

I would not have used the word "directional" as that implies something different to me than a wire that looks different from one end than the other (at several GHz).

Enough OT from me.

One could say that directionality is caused accidentally by manufacturing tolerances not being tight enough but its incorrect to say that they are directional by design which they are not. It is and will remain semantics.
 

Chrispy

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I'm sure this has been mentioned before but surely if the fuse has blown then output would be affected. Why are "audiophiles" so into bullshit is the bigger question....
 
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