Furniture maker looking for diy loudspeaker recommendations

[Nedjohnson]

Yeah, I don’t recommend OJAS, but was pointing out that they build a box around the Ceiling speaker I recommended.

It’s easy enough for the furniture builder to take that JBL driver and put it in a box . That’s the whole point. OJAS cuts away a lot of the wave guide which you probably shouldn’t do.

But it means that the driver itself is pretty solid and you just need to put it in a box with the right amount of volume.

@Nedjohnson
The elekit is great. But definitely need something efficient like the driver I suggested. Not sure if there are other choices, since Fostex is pretty good too.

The problem with Fostex is just that the bass response won’t be there.

Got it, great info. Really appreciate your time. I go ahead and give it a shot! I wish I could just use normal amps but it seems like everyone loves the nostalgia of tube amps because the cabinet design is similar to vintage designs

 

[kemmler3D]

the space is flexible but around 22(h)x 12(w) x 16 (d). I’d love to spend the time and build a horn speaker but I don’t have the know how. I haven’t been able to find plans to copy, know of any that I could use?

Something like this could work although the dimensions are off, I think for this kind of thing the length matters as well as the volume. This Planet 10 person may be able to help you find / create the proper design, either one that exists already or for a fee. This sort of design is fairly popular over at the DIYAudio forum. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-compact-floorstander-intro-questions.259438/

 

[kemmler3D]

Is there another tube amp kit that would give us more options?

Unfortunately I know very little about tube amps or DIY kits, but the DIYAudio forum has a section for that kind of thing... more recommendations might exist or be forthcoming there.

 

[GXAlan]

If you are really ambitious

“But everybody can experiment with the Paragon reflector: Take two pressboard with a length of about 90 cm (35 inch) for each side and bow each of them until there is a gap (?) of 8 cm (3 inches). I have tried this with two fullrange boxes. There is a stable stereo image (with a small basis) and an amazing soundstage all over the room. In a big room 7 m x 7m (23 ft x 23 ft) I placed the speakers in the corners, it was all over a fulfilling sound stage.”

Soundstage Paragon & S2600 compared

I got in mind that the Paragon and the S2600 (or S3100, DD55000, horn 4660) have something in common. Thanks to Fred Sanford I got a good Paragon drawing, so I can point it out. The S2600 (et al.) has a very specific directivity so that a special soundstage can be achieved. This can be...

www.audioheritage.org

 

[Nedjohnson]

If you are really ambitious

“But everybody can experiment with the Paragon reflector: Take two pressboard with a length of about 90 cm (35 inch) for each side and bow each of them until there is a gap (?) of 8 cm (3 inches). I have tried this with two fullrange boxes. There is a stable stereo image (with a small basis) and an amazing soundstage all over the room. In a big room 7 m x 7m (23 ft x 23 ft) I placed the speakers in the corners, it was all over a fulfilling sound stage.”

Soundstage Paragon & S2600 compared

I got in mind that the Paragon and the S2600 (or S3100, DD55000, horn 4660) have something in common. Thanks to Fred Sanford I got a good Paragon drawing, so I can point it out. The S2600 (et al.) has a very specific directivity so that a special soundstage can be achieved. This can be...

www.audioheritage.org

Hmm, we actually have a refurbished jbl paragon collecting dust in the shop. Never thought about using a similar design to improve sound on our new builds. I love that idea

 

[NTK]

Hmm, we actually have a refurbished jbl paragon collecting dust in the shop. Never thought about using a similar design to improve sound on our new builds. I love that idea

Saw that in one of your pictures

 

[Nedjohnson]

Saw that in one of your pictures

Oh yes, there it is!

 

[Waxx]

If you want to use a 8w tube amp and reach normal hifi levels (unoffficial set at 102dB max), you need a 93dB sensitive speaker or more. This runs out most of the modern hifi drivers. You can use better pro audio drivers, so a big woofer (and big cabinet) and a compression driver, or you can go with old style fullrange drivers (Fostex, Lowther, Lii Audio, ... but my favorite is the Fane Sovereighn 12-250TC) that are mostly big and not that neutral in sound at all. Some like that style altough.

IF you want a more or less neutral sound, a JBL style 2 or 3 way is probally your best bet. Use a compression driver in horn with high sensitive pro audio drivers of high quality (Faital, B&C, Beyma, ...) for the woofer and mid if you use a mid.

If you want a premade design, look at some of the high sensitive design of Troels Gravensen, or ath the different econowave designs. The original Humble Home Hifi Calpamos (not the actual version) is also fit and the drivers are still there. You just may have to do the crossover yourself or get the schematic (probally paying) from Humble Home Hifi. the rest of the plans are in the archive section of their site. I made that design for someone and he uses it with a 10w class A transistor amp that can drive it to very loud and it sounds wonderfull. I don't have the plans anymore of it altough. I made an own variation of it (different woofer tuned way lower) as garden system for a friend, but there we use a DBX Driverrack (digital) dsp as crossover and Crown XLi amps for power. That design does not fit your need altough (to big, digital crossover).

 

[Nedjohnson]

If you want to use a 8w tube amp and reach normal hifi levels (unoffficial set at 102dB max), you need a 93dB sensitive speaker or more. This runs out most of the modern hifi drivers. You can use better pro audio drivers, so a big woofer (and big cabinet) and a compression driver, or you can go with old style fullrange drivers (Fostex, Lowther, Lii Audio, ... but my favorite is the Fane Sovereighn 12-250TC) that are mostly big and not that neutral in sound at all. Some like that style altough.

IF you want a more or less neutral sound, a JBL style 2 or 3 way is probally your best bet. Use a compression driver in horn with high sensitive pro audio drivers of high quality (Faital, B&C, Beyma, ...) for the woofer and mid if you use a mid.

If you want a premade design, look at some of the high sensitive design of Troels Gravensen, or ath the different econowave designs. The original Humble Home Hifi Calpamos (not the actual version) is also fit and the drivers are still there. You just may have to do the crossover yourself or get the schematic (probally paying) from Humble Home Hifi. the rest of the plans are in the archive section of their site. I made that design for someone and he uses it with a 10w class A transistor amp that can drive it to very loud and it sounds wonderfull. I don't have the plans anymore of it altough. I made an own variation of it (different woofer tuned way lower) as garden system for a friend, but there we use a DBX Driverrack (digital) dsp as crossover and Crown XLi amps for power. That design does not fit your need altough (to big, digital crossover).

Thank you for the input. I’ll look into all those options. I also don’t at all mind paying for schematics. The lowthers sound good (to me) but bass is lacking and I’m always looking to improve on the last console. I love the look of the Fanes you suggested. I’d assume those would those have more bass being a 12 in vs an 8 in? Using a premade design seems like a great option to me because I don’t have the equipment or know how to test for box size and driver/porthole placement. I could just adjust my box to be the same size as the design. Even if I could find a schematic to buy of a horn design similar size to my box dimensions would be great. Just any horn design I’ve found are much larger boxes which would throw off the asthetic.

 

[Waxx]

With the sizes in inches you provide (most of the world does not work in inches so they don't look at that, neighter did i, i had to convert them to cm) you only have 47L box (assuming you use 18mm wood like standard) , and a max of a 10" driver (due to 12" box widith) is possible.

To have high sensitive systems in such a small box is a challenge. I don't know a speaker that can be sensitive enough to have good volume with an 8w amp, and can go low enough to have real bass for that size. You're running in Hofmann's iron law: sensivity, small size and low response don't go toghetter, you need to choose two of the three factors, not all three (that is basic physics that limit that).

 

[Nedjohnson]

Yes we used to do this but we like having an exposed speaker with Burl wood veneer so we started buying drivers to install.

 

[Nedjohnson]

With the sizes in inches you provide (most of the world does not work in inches so they don't look at that, neighter did i, i had to convert them to cm) you only have 47L box (assuming you use 18mm wood like standard) , and a max of a 10" driver (due to 12" box widith) is possible.

To have high sensitive systems in such a small box is a challenge. I don't know a speaker that can be sensitive enough to have good volume with an 8w amp, and can go low enough to have real bass for that size. You're running in Hofmann's iron law: sensivity, small size and low response don't go toghetter, you need to choose two of the three factors, not all three (that is basic physics that limit that).

Ah, I see, sorry for the confusion. What if I expanded to box to 64 cm height 38 cm wide to 43 cm deep? That would enable me to use a 12 inch driver and also get more bass? Klipsh heresy iv has similar box size and are very popular 3 way speakers that are supposed to run great on tube amps.

 

[Waxx]

That is about 80L and would fit a Fane 12-1250TC sealed with a response to high 40's, more ore less like an average bookshelf but with a sensivity of 98dB/1W (in reality). The limited xmax of that driver gives you real bass to about 101dB without a lot of distortion (but only 97dB with 8w). But in room that will be better due to wall loading. That is a reasonable design that can work.

If you build that closed cabinet, put a lot of damping material (long hair wool, dacron, or something similar) inside,, that will make the sound a lot better than empty. This is already build by some and reported good.

I use this driver in a much bigger cabinet tuned lower, but my test cabinets for this driver were similar size (85L) and they worked quiet well. Only thing, don't be fooled by the power numbers in the specs, the driver as fullrange can in reality handle 25w before it start cutt off the bass... That 250W spec is when used in a 2way system with a woofer doing all below 250Hz.

That size also can work with some bigger woofers if you could add a horn tweeter to compliment. But your design won't allow that i think.

 

[Nedjohnson]

That is about 80L and would fit a Fane 12-1250TC sealed with a response to high 40's, more ore less like an average bookshelf but with a sensivity of 98dB/1W (in reality). The limited xmax of that driver gives you real bass to about 101dB without a lot of distortion (but only 97dB with 8w). But in room that will be better due to wall loading. That is a reasonable design that can work.

If you build that closed cabinet, put a lot of damping material (long hair wool, dacron, or something similar) inside,, that will make the sound a lot better than empty. This is already build by some and reported good.

I use this driver in a much bigger cabinet tuned lower, but my test cabinets for this driver were similar size (85L) and they worked quiet well. Only thing, don't be fooled by the power numbers in the specs, the driver as fullrange can in reality handle 25w before it start cutt off the bass... That 250W spec is when used in a 2way system with a woofer doing all below 250Hz.

That size also can work with some bigger woofers if you could add a horn tweeter to compliment. But your design won't allow that i think.

Awesome, I’m definitely going to try this. By sealed you meant no porthole? Or should there still be a porthole? What size?

 

[Salt]

Sealed means close, no port.

 

[Waxx]

Awesome, I’m definitely going to try this. By sealed you meant no porthole? Or should there still be a porthole? What size?

Sealed is no porthole, you just add loose stuffing (like the whool or dracon) to damp the cabinet's internal resoances, but for the rest it's an (relative) airtight closed box that act like an acoustic suspention. More (basic generalised) tech info about that type is here: https://audiojudgement.com/sealed-enclosure-closed-box/

 

[Nedjohnson]

Sealed is no porthole, you just add loose stuffing (like the whool or dracon) to damp the cabinet's internal resoances, but for the rest it's an (relative) airtight closed box that act like an acoustic suspention. More (basic generalised) tech info about that type is here: https://audiojudgement.com/sealed-enclosure-closed-box/

Perfect! Thank you, really appreciate all the amazing info.