Fun with vinyl measurements

[aaaakkkk]

The speed fluctuation is about two percent, what kind of records it (Lyrec motor) could be used for cutting, gramophone?

 

[aaaakkkk]

This motor was in production from 1955 until 1976

 

[JP]

The speed fluctuation is about two percent, what kind of records it (Lyrec motor) could be used for cutting, gramophone?
View attachment 411961
View attachment 411962

Lyec motors are what came with Neumann lathes - AM132, VMS-66, VMS-70, etc.

 

[aaaakkkk]

Lyec motors are what came with Neumann lathes - AM132, VMS-66, VMS-70, etc.

I think for the cutting of this record, a worn out motor was deliberately used

Neumann adopted SP-02 crystal-locked, DC motors made by Technics after 1976

https://pspatialaudio.com/lathes.htm

 

[JP]

Stuffed an MC-2000 today. I wanna cry.

 

[Thomas_A]

Stuffed an MC-2000 today. I wanna cry.

Meaning it’s dead?

 

[JP]

Meaning it’s dead?

Decapitated.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Sad, But you will have better days soon.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Some more Fun, I found Analog Magik V1 as secondhand and could not resist…a suitable Xmas gift from my wife to me..

Used once by previous owner.

 

[morillon]

if the software is just a virtins , overpowered, revamped, simpligied to be "unrecognized"
distortiometer reel time and sames in imd, fr crosstalk riaa -unriaa curves etc with just software and small hardware...not expensive now...
very classic approaches from the 70s-80s, just forgotten or unknown to recent generations rediscovering vinyl...(with a rather ridiculous "revolutionary" marketing pitch)
it's the quality and relevance of the discs that is interesting to test...
I'm really curious about your feedback..
;-)

 

[Thomas_A]

Some more Fun, I found Analog Magik V1 as secondhand and could not resist…a suitable Xmas gift from my wife to me..
View attachment 416551

Used once by previous owner.

Please report back what you think.

 

[Thomas_A]

Stylus rake angle tests.

The JICO SAS/B stylus for the Shure V15Vx is known for having a high (≈30°) VTA and current setting I have used also have around 94° SRA (tonearm parallell to the record). I remounted my tonearm height set screw on the Moerch DP-8 and ran som tests using the Ortofon 800 Hz-45 000 Hz sweep to see what factors are affected. Starting with the lowest setting at the tonearm base I turned the set screw one turn for each measurement until the tonearm was ≈parallell (3-4 turns). Then I lowered the tonearm again and repeated test with one turn of the set screw, just to see the repeatability of the test.

Basically, it is hard to see any changes in output 20-45 kHz, most likely because the change in SRA/VTA is very small in this experiment. I also believe the output must be higher engraved to see any effects, or being more inner groove related. What can be seen is a difference in second harmonic, being most matched at one turn, and channel crosstalk.

These are the results.

One addition here where I made a VTA shim to get a reduced SRA/VTA. My measurements indicate a decrease by roughly 4° SRA/VTA. Cantilever angle 26°-> 22°. Effective VTA from around 30° to around 26° (tip to pivot).

And the measurements below. It seems to have increased the highs a bit. But... both crosstalk and distortion got worse. So conclusion is that an SRA of about 94° gets the best results using this test record, despite the high 30° VTA.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Please report back what you think.

AnalogMagik V1 Analog Magik for search reference.


Some others had given a detailed review here

Cartridge and TT Setup with AnalogMagik

This is a write up of the Analog Magik Cartridge Calibration Software package. I'll review the package as a whole so you can determine if purchasing...

www.superbestaudiofriends.org

I pretty much have everything dialed in by other test records, so using AM in addition will be just for convenience/curiosity … especially Zenith..

Had a quick pass through the tracks. and found that my setup was OK. My main motivation was to get the Zeniths check by using this trick

Electrical Zenith Setup - Intact Audio

But since my VTA results were 2-3% max 4% IMD which is good I did not change VTA today. The VTA track is NOT vertically modulated as I hoped/expected, it is in stereo... strange choice..
So later I may upgrade to V2 the have other special Zenith tracks..and updated records.

What is different compared to other records/methods is THD vs VTF and Anti-skate. Both parameters checked out OK in my case.

0.Records are pristine with absolutely no wobbles7warps or imperfections, RIAA implementaion on all tracks it seems, supposed to tim RIAA when recording
1. Speed 3150 OK quality ,but not reaching my top 2 3150hz records. I get WOW at best 0.07% while my best record is 0.03 many records are 0.1+%.. so not bad
2. Azimuth crosstalk -27/32 vs 31/32 ortfon and 37/37 Tohiba that my PU was set up with. 25/31 on my ShureV15-IV Jico SAS B.
3. VTA, 2-4%IMD seems OK on my OC9. Jico SAS on V15IV is 7%, probably due to 30 degree VTA...
4. Anti-skate set for equal channel distortion: mine was perfectly balanced 0.2/0.2% on OC9 and 0.3 on Jico/Shure increasing at higher levelst t0 1.5% but stile eqial on both channelse so probably fine
5. Loading: pink noise for frequency response, similar quality as other PN tracks … 0-150db scale is kind of flattering ....


I used the recommended ART sound card on a new W11 MSI Modern laptop, I got hangups and freeze if I ran other apps , and on battery.
3th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-1335U 1.30 GHz
8.00 GB (7.73 GB usable)

Skipping the ART soundcard and using cabled power and Parks Audio Puffin directly with Toslink-USB connection from HifiMe to PC worked fine without any hickups.

Spoiler: details with ShureV15-IV Jico SAS B

in menu order nor track order.

1. Speed

2. Azimuth tilted compered with my chosen reference Toshiba 37/37 and Ortofon slighly off , who knows which one is correct,,,

3.VTA 60hz 7000Hz intermodulation track stereo Shure V15 gives 7-8% while AT OC9MLii gives 2-4%

4. Antiskating, standard 315Hz track increasing level I get balanced results that are supposedly good, OC9 lower than Shure/Jico thd%

5.Loadin g=frequency respnonse, too wide scale I think.. her mey Shure which is very flat

In REW it looks like this on OC9

6. VTF 300 and 7000Hz tones and distortion evaluation, I got no effect on distortion when varying VTF

7. Gain Noise floor evaluation, I got this at 39db Gain on MM. Nice balance on this cart 0.1db. I think 30db noise floor means 50db noisefloor at 1khz

8. Intermodulation test 60/500HZ to revieal vibration?, Numbers go up if i bump the TT... her is Denon DP-51F which is not very inert...

9. Resonance test lateral and vertical, but range is 7.5-35Hz should go down to 5 at least to be useful... My Denoen 51F has electronic arm damping and hides resonances well

 

[Thomas_A]

So VTA track not vertically modulated? It must be to check vertical arc, VTA. As I mentiioned above I shimmed it down by 4 degree. But I don’t have a VTA IMD track. Only single tones vertically cut. THD from these should show something (?)

 

[Balle Clorin]

Very inadequate with stereo track for VTA. Ultimate Analog have the same flaw. How can professionals miss such a basic thing .VTA IMD check must be done by Vertical modulation, the old CBS test records 111/112 use vertial mod. For some reason my REW on my new PC do not analyse IMD so I cannot use that for IMD anymore . ( old PC and Older REW did IMD%..) not sure what I am doing wrong in REW now

 

[morillon]

Very inadequate with stereo track for VTA. Ultimate Analog have the same flaw. How can professionals miss such a basic thing .VTA IMD check must be done by Vertical modulation, the old CBS test records 111/112 use vertial mod. For some reason my REW on my new PC do not analyse IMD so I cannot use that for IMD anymore . ( old PC and Older REW did IMD%..) not sure what I am doing wrong in REW now

virtins is very comfortable in imd ... ;-)
(would be interesting to compare the results with short measurements with multitones of pkane)
(there was a weakness in the riaa correction on old versions of virtins so your software too... corrected recently... can be to be checked in your case

virtins.com • View topic - small inaccuracy of riaa compensation

 

[Thomas_A]

Very inadequate with stereo track for VTA. Ultimate Analog have the same flaw. How can professionals miss such a basic thing .VTA IMD check must be done by Vertical modulation, the old CBS test records 111/112 use vertial mod. For some reason my REW on my new PC do not analyse IMD so I cannot use that for IMD anymore . ( old PC and Older REW did IMD%..) not sure what I am doing wrong in REW now

So what do the numbers mean? Laterally cut 60 Hz + 7000 Hz tests for LTA IMD, not VTA IMD. Also to relate to music content 60 Hz vertical cut does not occur since bass is in mono. Other combinations should be better eg 370+630 Hz.

 

[Balle Clorin]

The cut is 45 degree in phase stereo
Maybe it is a mathematics to extract the vertical movement L R M S ?

L-R should become Vertical mod right?

. I think music content or not is not relevant . iMD increases with tracing distortion as VTA error increases , explained in some old Audio papers , Too lazy to find the link but I posted it here before , google CBS record 111 and 112 that were made for VTA IMD check

my OC9 has a VTA at 20-22 according to DIN test record , and Jico supposedly 30 degrees. The AM IMD is 2.5 times higher for my Jico compared to OC9MLii they have the same stylus and are set up with the same tools and test records . Higher vertical tracing error and higher IMD is expected for the Jico so the results make sense. One day I may fiddle with The VTA in the OC9 TT but I only get 3mm higher Tail end…


Yes someday I may get Virtin too @morillon
Since I got AnalogMagik V1 for Xmas, an V2 upgrade will be the plan for my birthday next year….

 

[morillon]

q

The cut is 45 degree in phase stereo
Maybe it is a mathematics to extract the vertical movement L R M S ?

L-R should become Vertical mod right?

. I think music content or not is not relevant . iMD increases with tracing distortion as VTA error increases , explained in some old Audio papers , Too lazy to find the link but I posted it here before , google CBS record 111 and 112 that were made for VTA IMD check

my OC9 has a VTA at 20-22 according to DIN test record , and Jico supposedly 30 degrees. The AM IMD is 2.5 times higher for my Jico compared to OC9MLii they have the same stylus and are set up with the same tools and test records . Higher vertical tracing error and higher IMD is expected for the Jico so the results make sense. One day I may fiddle with The VTA in the OC9 TT but I only get 3mm higher Tail end…


Yes someday I may get Virtin too @morillon
Since I got AnalogMagik V1 for Xmas, an V2 upgrade will be the plan for my birthday next year….

you don't need... you have the essential functions that are useful to you in settings available in virtins pro....
on the other hand I don't know how the updates are done for you.... you can see if you have access to the folders to replace the "riaa" files.....

but between rew, mt and this heavily simplified version of virtins (to also make the origin of the software disappear) , you have more than you need (but just "help with settings" )
(virtins is a very powerful software but not easy to use and interface ;-) )

already said but with our software offers, asio sound cards etc (vinyl needs are modest ), the only subject is the relevance or not of our methods and tracks
;-)

 

[Thomas_A]

The cut is 45 degree in phase stereo
Maybe it is a mathematics to extract the vertical movement L R M S ?

L-R should become Vertical mod right?

. I think music content or not is not relevant . iMD increases with tracing distortion as VTA error increases , explained in some old Audio papers , Too lazy to find the link but I posted it here before , google CBS record 111 and 112 that were made for VTA IMD check

my OC9 has a VTA at 20-22 according to DIN test record , and Jico supposedly 30 degrees. The AM IMD is 2.5 times higher for my Jico compared to OC9MLii they have the same stylus and are set up with the same tools and test records . Higher vertical tracing error and higher IMD is expected for the Jico so the results make sense. One day I may fiddle with The VTA in the OC9 TT but I only get 3mm higher Tail end…


Yes someday I may get Virtin too @morillon
Since I got AnalogMagik V1 for Xmas, an V2 upgrade will be the plan for my birthday next year….

Yes VTA IMD error is easily measured with the test records, but not as easily on music programmes.

The music example with 12° simulated VTA error below; and also read the paragraphs before.

Vertical Tracking Distortion

Stereo Lab Vertical Tracking Distortion Vertical Tracking Error

pspatialaudio.com