Fun with vinyl measurements

[dlaloum]

Yes, it is a terrible thing for a stylus to be too "pointy"....

 

[morillon]

"un peu maigre et assez pointu"" ;-)
(French figurative expression....but very explicit)

 

[Balle Clorin]

If you think AT is too bright your hearing/age is young, If you love AT you know you are getting old….

 

[Balle Clorin]

Two very different systems one very top end TT and cartridge 30 000 USD and a very classic but well regarded 80 table and cartridge. And different pressing UHQR vs an original pressing.
The expensive system with UHQR peak at both frequency extremes. probably mastering the UHQR clearly has more bass when listing. Can only speculate how much is the mastering and how much is the system.
Top end+UHQR= red difference=blue
Track 87 first seconds of Dire Straits -Water of love, imported to REW and subtracted , Trace arithmetic [A]/[B.]

Compared with CD Orange

DIFFERENCE Top end system&record vs CD, and "standard" vs CD

zoomed

 

[Balle Clorin]

Difference between 2 cartridges on same record and TT

 

[Balle Clorin]

Effect of brush on Shure V15 IV Jico SAS-B..

 

[Thomas_A]

Difference of the UP-4 and DP-8 tonearm in the resonance region, from from Suzanne Vega LP. Significant reduction of resonance 5-20 Hz of DP-8.

 

[dlaloum]

Difference of the UP-4 and DP-8 tonearm in the resonance region, from from Suzanne Vega LP. Significant reduction of resonance 5-20 Hz of DP-8.

View attachment 385684

What arm are you using on the UP4... ie: what effective mass?

I know they are both fluid damped - but can fluid levels and/or viscosity be adjusted (is one damped more than the other?)

The increased stability/damping by design of the DP8 in the horizontal plane, may account for some of that I expect... (much like a "longhorn" mod on a Grado cartridge...)

 

[Thomas_A]

What arm are you using on the UP4... ie: what effective mass?

I know they are both fluid damped - but can fluid levels and/or viscosity be adjusted (is one damped more than the other?)

The increased stability/damping by design of the DP8 in the horizontal plane, may account for some of that I expect... (much like a "longhorn" mod on a Grado cartridge...)

in that graph UP4 is using the 4 g wand and the DP8 the 7.5 g wand. UP4 does not really have damping in the lateral direction. Only when the pivot tilts around its axis. DP8 has both high lateral mass and lateral damping. Since Shure/JICO brus is used in both cases the difference is mainly the lateral direction.

The subjective impact in sound is better pitch stability and more detail. Which also was measured by lower FM flutter in the 4-20 Hz region.

The old servo-controlled damping arms would probably give similar effect.

 

[Balle Clorin]

My Gyro SE above. Not bad for a belt drive. setting it to 33.44 assures 33.33 which stylus in record grove.

I stumbled upon some speed measurement of these very expensive DD TT. They are beaten by a typical Technics 1200…and my Gyro and my Denon 51F

Money does not always matter…

· J. · OMA K3: $363,000 including power supply and Schröder SLM tonearm · SAT XD1: €180,000 without tonearm

 

[dlaloum]

in that graph UP4 is using the 4 g wand and the DP8 the 7.5 g wand. UP4 does not really have damping in the lateral direction. Only when the pivot tilts around its axis. DP8 has both high lateral mass and lateral damping. Since Shure/JICO brus is used in both cases the difference is mainly the lateral direction.

The subjective impact in sound is better pitch stability and more detail. Which also was measured by lower FM flutter in the 4-20 Hz region.

The old servo-controlled damping arms would probably give similar effect.

Sadly my servo controlled arm is mid mass.... but yeah it keeps things well under control (JVC QL-Y5F)

 

[dlaloum]

in that graph UP4 is using the 4 g wand and the DP8 the 7.5 g wand. UP4 does not really have damping in the lateral direction. Only when the pivot tilts around its axis. DP8 has both high lateral mass and lateral damping. Since Shure/JICO brus is used in both cases the difference is mainly the lateral direction.

The subjective impact in sound is better pitch stability and more detail. Which also was measured by lower FM flutter in the 4-20 Hz region.

The old servo-controlled damping arms would probably give similar effect.

The high lateral mass would be similar to the Dynavector arms perhaps? (I've always wanted to try one of those...)

 

[morillon]

View attachment 385899
My Gyro SE above. Not bad for a belt drive. setting it to 33.44 assures 33.33 which stylus in record grove.

I stumbled upon some speed measurement of these very expensive DD TT. They are beaten by a typical Technics 1200…and my Gyro and my Denon 51F

Money does not always matter…

· J. · OMA K3: $363,000 including power supply and Schröder SLM tonearm · SAT XD1: €180,000 without tonearm
View attachment 385897

the values would be a little bit higher if they were calculated on a 33.33 it seems to me ;-)

 

[Balle Clorin]

Yes. 2S wow would go from 0.0780% to 0.0782!!!

 

[morillon]

Yes. 2S wow would go from 0.0780% to 0.0782!!!

;-)
ps I forgot what version of motor-power supply you have on this gyro?

 

[Balle Clorin]

HR supply, the main benefit is access from outside to adjust the speed. For the Standard supply it is possible to make a strategic located hole in the cover and do the same. I bought my Gyro SE with a SME V arm and HR supply for 1200usd second hand 15 years ago, the arm is from 1995 but seem to work very well, table is probably from 2005+. The Belt is NOS made in Japan, used for a year by me now.

Today a Gyro SE with HR supply would cost >8000 usd with a standard arm , and SME V are not sold any more. Quite happy that I was crazy enough to buy it when I did. Michell’s prices has exploded after the Covid pandemic …

 

[morillon]

HR supply, the main benefit is access from outside to adjust the speed. For the Standard supply it is possible to make a strategic located hole in the cover and do the same. I bought my Gyro SE with a SME V arm and HR supply for 1200usd second hand 15 years ago, the arm is from 1995 but seem to work very well, table is probably from 2005+. The Belt is NOS made in Japan, used for a year by me now.

Today a Gyro SE with HR supply would cost >8000 usd with a standard arm , and SME V are not sold any more. Quite happy that I was crazy enough to buy it when I did. Michell’s prices has exploded after the Covid pandemic …

it's a DC motor with regulated power supply then? (that would explain a lot of your good results if the rest is taken care of) ;-)
(in the case of my old vpi from about the same period on an ac motor without a converter etc. the figures are in any case affected by the slippage of the mains frequency... even over short times like 15 seconds etc.)
(It's a shame I have a friend who has the same arm base etc (but with MC HDG cardtrige)...with on the other hand an alternative of high performance medical motor - HDG power supply - double belts, ambitious, but as it has not carried all your efforts.... I can't even judge the interest of this approach.... I fear that attention to detail makes much more difference... too bad...)

your case is a cc approach...with a belt certainly...but cc reguled....we are close to dd but with engines turning quickly...that is also of interest

 

[Thomas_A]

View attachment 385899
My Gyro SE above. Not bad for a belt drive. setting it to 33.44 assures 33.33 which stylus in record grove.

I stumbled upon some speed measurement of these very expensive DD TT. They are beaten by a typical Technics 1200…and my Gyro and my Denon 51F

Money does not always matter…

· J. · OMA K3: $363,000 including power supply and Schröder SLM tonearm · SAT XD1: €180,000 without tonearm
View attachment 385897

Can you play a record while the shaknspin is on? If so, you can check the speed during dynamic (friction) conditions.

 

[morillon]

Can you play a record while the shaknspin is on? If so, you can check the speed during dynamic (friction) conditions.

from memory the hungaroton allows it....
3k150 in first at face b
+180gr

 

[Thomas_A]

from memory the hungaroton allows it....

You mean a test records 3150 Hz? This is not what I mean to test though. I just mean testing speed with the load of the arm/cartridge friction. Any LP will do.