Fun with vinyl measurements

[Balle Clorin]

Is there any special setting in the script when you use music tracks? I mean there is no 1 kHz track here.

At top if the script You have the options Peak to be used with a single tone, Sweep for sweep, and broadband for pink noise/music. Use at own risk

 

[Balle Clorin]

Distortion doesn’t change at all?

It increase steady towards centre, conical a more than line shape

MICROLINE

 

[Thomas_A]

Wally Tools have a video where it is stated that AP Duke Ellington Masterpieces is verified to have 0.5 degree zenith error. I bought that record , not for the music , but maybe the script can be modified to interpret that mono record…select «broadband»

Post in thread 'Using Wally Tools'
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/using-wally-tools.37229/post-951154

My photograph of stylus zenith are poor but none indicate the kind of error I measure with the script, so I must investigate the rest of the recoding chain ..

PS I have an excel file to convert phase error to HTA error, that affects the shape of the “angle deviation “ , see post above. When ai simulate arm tracking with the Excel Armtrack (Vinylengine tool? ) I get that the shape vary with overhang but cartridge angle changes absolute value but not shape. So maybe minimum variation is the correct goal( taking record Zenith ut of the equation?)

EDIT: here is samples outer-mid inner- from the Ellington record side 1, on my Shure V15-iv sasB on Denon 51f
View attachment 509769

and whole side 1
View attachment 509772
here is the Sperling record 1khz
View attachment 509770

Is your Shure Jico aligned according to the protractor?

 

[Balle Clorin]

using the Denon 51F guideline overhang and checkin Using Project protractor and Geo-Disk and Hifi news

Here is a trials with Toshiba 1khz track at 112-119 mm radius, B-4 on LR-9001R. Japanese null point?

https://www.discogs.com/release/22909037-No-Artist-%E3%82%B9%E3%83%86%E3%83%AC%E3%82%AA%E3%83%86%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%83%AC%E3%82%B3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89-%E6%B8%AC%E5%AE%9A%E7%94%A8-Stereo-Test-Record-For-Measurement

Starting from far counterclockwise position of cartridge and turning cartridge clockwise at start reduces phase angle diff. positive phase diff makes me wonder if the script calculated the sign for + - angle wrong. (Channels are not mixed, I checked).

I seem to have lost may way....

 

[Thomas_A]

using the Denon 51F guideline overhang and checkin Using Project protractor and Geo-Disk and Hifi news

Here is a trials with Toshiba 1khz track at 112-119 mm radius, B-4 on LR-9001R. Japanese null point?

https://www.discogs.com/release/22909037-No-Artist-%E3%82%B9%E3%83%86%E3%83%AC%E3%82%AA%E3%83%86%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%83%AC%E3%82%B3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89-%E6%B8%AC%E5%AE%9A%E7%94%A8-Stereo-Test-Record-For-Measurement

Starting from far counterclockwise position of cartridge and turning cartridge clockwise at start reduces phase angle diff. positive phase diff makes me wonder if the script calculated the sign for + - angle wrong. (Channels are not mixed, I checked).


View attachment 510038

View attachment 510040


I seem to have lost may way....

Just to clarify - if you start a max counterclockwise position means that your cartridge's right channel should be max + phase positive, and decrease as you are turning it clockwise.

 

[Thomas_A]

I went back to setting the stylus alignment according to the Mørch arc protractor to get some systematic check. The shape of the curve tells me that the overhang should be a bit less, null points approximately at +0.7° and +1.1-1.2°. Ideally they should cross at 0°. I could redo these things with my Shure V15Vx where I have 3-4 Jico SAS stylii to see if there is any variation, but that would require me a few days off work.

After many tries with only changing overhang, I realise that this is no way forward. But from original position, twisting the cartridge clockwise a bit does it. Now null points at 0° and +0.2-0.3°.

 

[Thomas_A]

Hm has skating/antiskating something to do with all this?

 

[Balle Clorin]

Just to clarify - if you start a max counterclockwise position means that your cartridge's right channel should be max + phase positive, and decrease as you are turning it clockwise.

Ahhh thanks! Of course! I was imaging the opposite..stupid me..

 

[Thomas_A]

Antiskate and phase. I would expect a effect on AS on cantilever deflection, which should decrease R over L with increasing AS. Some effect but small.

 

[Thomas_A]

One curious question. The level varies quite a bit with the Sperling vs. different overhang/twists? If there is maximum swing, isn't that the ideal?

 

[Danish ear]

Does anyone of you fine people have measurements of where the HF-resonant peak is, on different versions of the Jico SAS on boron.

 

[Thomas_A]

Does anyone of you fine people have measurements of where the HF-resonant peak is, on different versions of the Jico SAS on boron.

It is different between units, from around 14 to 20 kHz. It is not known if there has been a change in design over time, e.g. more damping, but latest/newest ones seems to have the HF resonant peak more damped and and peaking around 18-20 kHz.

 

[Danish ear]

I have an old cartrigde that had original peaking at around 30-35Khz, maybe some of the magic is spoiled with retipping and thus getting a much lower HF resonance.

 

[Thomas_A]

@Balle Clorin, how does the AP test record IMD look with your alignment? Not sure if one of your script takes that signal.

 

[Thomas_A]

So here is my result when I have the cartridge perfect using the arc protractor at the very inner and outer point, as well as at the null points. I get at phase curve which is positive and a steeper rise at the end than expected. I can't replicate the negative phase result of yours @Balle Clorin.

If I use the square wave of the Flokason record (Ortofon) which is engraved at ≈74-80 mm from center and use "broadband" I get the following. A phase difference very close to zero.

 

[Balle Clorin]

To @Thomas_A
1. I am really frustrated that I cannot get the phase error to zero without increasing the AnalogMagik IMD a lot and also getting an alignment that is far off anything recognisable ( offset angle 5-6 degree lower) .on Denon 51f which I am posting most.
2. Accepting negative phase error and setting IMD on AnalogMagik low The Denon 51f is very close to Bearwald/Løfgren A checking with a printed curve protractor. Unexpected considering the arm is manufactured for 20.5 degree and 60/111 null.
3. the SME V I set for nice shape but negative on phase plot and low IMD on a project 2 point Bearwald?, but when checking with a printed arc protractor is is spot on Löfgren B , with I tiny angle error on inner spot= increase overhang tiny.

4. AP ultimate IMD, use the IMD script it has 2 frequency options you can change by edit in config section

5. Borrowing a Dr. Feickert protractor today, but with grandkids coming this weekend I am not sure I will do Hifi this weekend

I will try another turntable and another cartridge and start from scratch one day..

 

[Thomas_A]

To @Thomas_A
1. I am really frustrated that I cannot the phase error to zero without increasing the AnalogMagik IMD a lot and also getting an alignment that is far off anything recognisable ( offset angle 5-6 degree lower) .on Denon 51f which I am posting most.
2. Accepting negative phase error and setting IMD on AnalogMagik low The Denon 51f is very close to Bearwald/Løfgren A checking with a printed curve protractor. Unexpected considering the arm is manufactured for 20.5 degree and 60/111 null.
3. the SME V I set for nice shape but negative on phase plot and low IMD on a project 2 point Bearwald?, but when checking with a printed arc protractor is is spot on Löfgren B , with I tiny angle error on inner spot= increase overhang tiny.

4. AP ultimate IMD, use the IMD script it has 2 frequency options you can change by edit in config section

5. Borrowing a Dr. Feickert protractor today, but with grandkids coming this weekend I am not sure I will do Hifi this weekend

I will try another turntable and another cartridge and start from scratch one day..

Yep hate when things match up. I will mount my Shure V15Vx on the 4g arm wand and measure 4 stylii to see what variation I get.

 

[Thomas_A]

So I've been playing around with my older Shure V15Vx body, installed it on my 4 g arm wand, set it with the arc protractor and tested 5 stylii with the Sperling record. Three JICO SAS B (new and two old ones), JICO SAS Z (hardly used), and original Shure. Conclusion is that stylii differs...

First off the current, quite new JICO SAS B stylus:

Stylus 2, JICO SAS B.

Stylus 3, also a JICO SAS B, aged.

JICO SAS Zirconium, hardly used:

Original Shure beryllium/MR stylus. Worn and slightly skewed cantilever (towards R channel).

 

[ElectricWarrior]

To @Thomas_A
3. the SME V I set for nice shape but negative on phase plot and low IMD on a project 2 point Bearwald?, but when checking with a printed arc protractor is is spot on Löfgren B , with I tiny angle error on inner spot= increase overhang tiny.

That has never happened to me. Once the overhang is set on the arc and the offeset angle is set on a null point, it's always been fine on the other null point.

 

[Balle Clorin]

My viewing angle is almost impossible with my bad back..I must use a long arm and photo
Not hitting the inner spot perfect