Fun with vinyl measurements

[Thomas_A]

Not perfect but needs a bit less overhang. Perhaps 0.5-1 mm.

Adjusted a bit backwards; it has now approximately +/- 0.5° phase difference at most of the track. A bit bumpy, but anyway.

The issue is whether the Sperling is the "best one". There are records around with 1 kHz signals at various positions of the record, and I am quite sure they will vary a bit. The ideal would therefore be to look at the stylus facets to see if this is in agreement with the zenith correction.

 

[morillon]

Perhaps in this lovely presentation (it's just a shame the photo obscures a good portion of the graphs ;-) )
these scales are too compressed to be truly clear, it seems to me... especially in the second harmonic... right? 1db is better scale no? ;-)

 

[Balle Clorin]

The pencil leads look misaligned on the outer null, too..

it is a pain go get the pencil lead right. If not perfectly horizontal they will look skewed from above, and also the camera position angle affact things My eyes does not necessarily see the same as the photo....

 

[Thomas_A]

Perhaps in this lovely presentation (it's just a shame the photo obscures a good portion of the graphs ;-) )
these scales are too compressed to be truly clear, it seems to me... especially in the second harmonic... right? 1db is better scale no? ;-)

Updated!

 

[morillon]

Thank you
;-)
(What I think might be interesting would be to compare (on the same time scale...) the theoretical THD distribution of your settings, etc. ;-) )
( perhaps h2+h3 is more interresting of only 2eme? more meaningful?)

 

[Thomas_A]

Thank you
;-)
(What I think might be interesting would be to compare (on the same time scale...) the theoretical THD distribution of your settings, etc. ;-) )
( perhaps h2+h3 is more interresting of only 2eme? more meaningful?)

Theoretical based on tracking error would be below -60 dB. What is more interesting to start with is whether this is a correct zenith setting. At sometime I'll bring a real microscope home.

 

[morillon]

Is the sum of h2 and h3 not playable?

 

[Thomas_A]

Is the sum of h2 and h3 not playable?

Scripting it may be possible; Balle Clorins script extracts H2.

 

[morillon]

Ah, okay...

if that became possible... it would be interesting to see if it's more relevant... ("or not".... ;-) )
I'd be very tempted to think so... ;-)

 

[Thomas_A]

So what record to trust?

Sperling 120s

AP 120 s

For AP record R channel leads L, +3° phase. Very strange since cartridge/zenith is turned CW in this setup. Meaning stylus should read inner track/L channel before outer track/R channel vs.cartridge that is straight in the head shell.

 

[Thomas_A]

And finally, the CA-TRS1007 which is 1 kHz tracks scattered along the record, same cartridge setting as the last of the Sperling record. Right channel now behind, which is expected from previous measurements.

Which record to trust?

IMO these things only be validated with accurate zenith micrographs.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Wally Tools have a video where it is stated that AP Duke Ellington Masterpieces is verified to have 0.5 degree zenith error. I bought that record , not for the music , but maybe the script can be modified to interpret that mono record…select «broadband»

Post in thread 'Using Wally Tools'
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/using-wally-tools.37229/post-951154

My photograph of stylus zenith are poor but none indicate the kind of error I measure with the script, so I must investigate the rest of the recoding chain ..

PS I have an excel file to convert phase error to HTA error, that affects the shape of the “angle deviation “ , see post above. When ai simulate arm tracking with the Excel Armtrack (Vinylengine tool? ) I get that the shape vary with overhang but cartridge angle changes absolute value but not shape. So maybe minimum variation is the correct goal( taking record Zenith ut of the equation?)

EDIT: here is samples outer-mid inner- from the Ellington record side 1, on my Shure V15-iv sasB on Denon 51f

and whole side 1

here is the Sperling record 1khz

 

[morillon]

Mono piano discs have historically been used for tuning...by listening... ;-))))


(Personally, more modestly, this disc (if it's well made) has 1kHz across its entire surface; I imagine I could use it for THD crosstalk, etc., around the "null" points, regardless of their distribution...silly?)

 

[Balle Clorin]

It has been shown here and by Kort that there is no observable relation between tracking error and distortion, the level is probably too low to be visible above other distortion effects ( radius)

 

[morillon]

I was thinking about the more classic VTA, VTF, etc. settings around the null points

 

[Thomas_A]

Wally Tools have a video where it is stated that AP Duke Ellington Masterpieces is verified to have 0.5 degree zenith error. I bought that record , not for the music , but maybe the script can be modified to interpret that mono record…select «broadband»

Post in thread 'Using Wally Tools'
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/using-wally-tools.37229/post-951154

My photograph of stylus zenith are poor but none indicate the kind of error I measure with the script, so I must investigate the rest of the recoding chain ..

PS I have an excel file to convert phase error to HTA error, that affects the shape of the “angle deviation “ , see post above. When ai simulate arm tracking with the Excel Armtrack (Vinylengine tool? ) I get that the shape vary with overhang but cartridge angle changes absolute value but not shape. So maybe minimum variation is the correct goal( taking record Zenith ut of the equation?)

EDIT: here is samples outer-mid inner- from the Ellington record side 1, on my Shure V15-iv sasB on Denon 51f
View attachment 509769

and whole side 1
View attachment 509772
here is the Sperling record 1khz
View attachment 509770

Is there any special setting in the script when you use music tracks? I mean there is no 1 kHz track here.

 

[Thomas_A]

Kevin Gray master of Marvin Gaye's What's going on, original mono mix.

 

[Thomas_A]

Blues by Basie, mono, Phillips:

 

[JP]

It has been shown here and by Kort that there is no observable relation between tracking error and distortion, the level is probably too low to be visible above other distortion effects ( radius)

Distortion doesn’t change at all?

 

[Thomas_A]

I will test the Ortofon record as well. Flo made optical measurements of the tracks to check accuracy, but I do not know it applies to cutting zenith. So far the AP, Sperling and CA-TRS1007 give different values with respect to phase.