Fun with vinyl measurements

[morillon]

Horizontal Trackng Angle, or Zenith , the thing that protractors help with

Thank you... I'm not used to this abbreviation...

(What are the current zero points—the compromise points of your tonearm—at what distances?)

 

[JP]

I'm not used to this abbreviation...

It threw me initially as well.

 

[Balle Clorin]

A lot of people don't even know - not only Sly and Robbie, but Adrian Belew on this as well. Sad that the Studio went away. What a place... The best of Grace Jones was done there, too. Not even off topic, since those records are fantastic on vinyl. Nightclubbing is one of those, that are very close CD vs vinyl.

I have Nighclubbing too..

 

[Balle Clorin]

Regarding the Merolemez azimuth tracks. According to the instructions the curves should be symmetric, and ideally at 45°. But absolute values are "cartridge specific" and point is that the pattern should be adjusted so it is symmetric. Anyone have an idea about the cartridge specific factors? My Shure V15V JICO SAS/B has 43° (to 44°). And I also measured a VM540ML recently, being at 46°.

View attachment 491027

Never got 45 to work, but 46 is ok

 

[Balle Clorin]

The saga continues, HTA phase script and Hifi Sound 75 test record with 3x 300 lateral track across the record, The change in R-L phase can be identified
Have to make new recording with a Clearaudio Trackability records to get into the 120mm null point...

More smoothing.. to reduce noise

Theoretical if perfectly aligned... but as shown before we miss recordings that confirm this distortion curve ( Korf blog &me)

Now I just have to find that notepaper where I tried to calculate the phase difference vs HTA error

Edit

Not sure if 300hz gives proper results maybe the wow and offe-centre eccentricity fools the script , but 3000hz results make some sense.

Spoiler: test 3150hz

Phi is phase difference from the script, and Theta is tracking error in degrees

 

[Thomas_A]

Never got 45 to work, but 46 is ok

Simplest explanation is that the coils or magnets are not perfectly in +45°/-45° but I suspect there is more to it.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Like the record cut in 44/46

 

[Balle Clorin]

Regarding the Merolemez azimuth tracks. According to the instructions the curves should be symmetric, and ideally at 45°. But absolute values are "cartridge specific" and point is that the pattern should be adjusted so it is symmetric. Anyone have an idea about the cartridge specific factors? My Shure V15V JICO SAS/B has 43° (to 44°). And I also measured a VM540ML recently, being at 46°.

View attachment 491027

My time series script in the Merolemez Crosstalk test. Shure V15-IV Jico SAS-B, minimum symmetrical crosstalk at 47-46 cut angle.
Modulation angle starts with 50 degrees and steps down to 40 before increasing to 50 again

Phase flips when transiting from 47 to 46 degrees.

 

[Thomas_A]

My time series script in the Merolemez Crosstalk test. Shure V15-IV Jico SAS-B, minimum symmetrical crosstalk at 47-46 cut angle.
Modulation angle starts with 50 degrees and steps down to 40 before increasing to 50 again

View attachment 491491


Phase flips when transiting from 47 to 46 degrees.
View attachment 491501

Hm, a Shure JICO SAS. What cartridges can you test? Any other stylus for the Shure around?

 

[Balle Clorin]

Yes coming.
In the mean time the Clearaudio Trackability test record has a good crosstall track I am getting -39/-42.1 when recording flat. One negativ thing is higher distortion in R channel, if it is the record or cartridge I cannot say just now..

Phase difference and level and distortion at 137mm radius 1khz mono track

The nullpoint(120mm) is at the 60um 333hz traking track, for some reason the same um is harder on this record, jump out of the groove at 100um at outer track and 90um at inner track, On the Ortofon record I stay in track,,but with som buzz at 100um. 333hz is harder than 315 but....

8
Phase difference vary from -0.5 degree to +2.2, which translates to a phase difference of +1 degree at 120.9mm=tracking angle error( or rather Zenith error) of 0.85 degrees...

not sure about the sign...

 

[Balle Clorin]

Hm, a Shure JICO SAS. What cartridges can you test? Any other stylus for the Shure around?

Sorry the post was with a technics 270CII with a Tonar hyper elliptical

Here is the Shure, Not symmetrical, may not be the final adjustment

SHURE PHASE DIFFERENCE

 

[Thomas_A]

Sorry the post was with a technics 270CII with a Tonar hyper elliptical

her is the Shure, Not symmetrical, may not be the final adjustment
View attachment 491711

Yes, that needs some azimuth correction (0.5-1°) - you have ≈47° and 46° minima here. But it would be about the same result as the 270CII.

 

[Balle Clorin]

A Mint CD-4 test record from JVC arrived to day so I had to test the 30khz carrier and see what that gave for phase difference R-L and HTA/tracking error.
When the phase difference is known the HTA error can be calculated from track radius, rpm signal frequency and assumed groove width and the phase difference in degrees.

At 29200hz at 75mm radius and 10 degree phase angle I get a zenith/HTA error of 0.75 degrees. I wish the track was at the at the nullpoint....
Cartridge AT OC9MLii, it reproduces the CD-4 content beautifully..ref Korf

Antiskating, Part III

korfaudio.com

Spoiler: relation phase difference and zenith/HTA error

 

[morillon]

Probably the most effective way to observe the "HTA" of a cartdrige will be to use a... linear tonearm.
;-)

 

[Balle Clorin]

yes, but I cannot use what I do not have...

 

[GuidoK]

yes, but I cannot use what I do not have...

All the time I was wondering why not do the same experiments on a linear tracker....but this answers my question

 

[Balle Clorin]

Is a Technics SL7 a useful thing, can it take a normal non TP cartridge?

 

[melloncolliecat]

Is a Technics SL7 a useful thing, can it take a normal non TP cartridge?

Yes and no.

I think there are a few linear trackers that take regular SME-type headshells, but usually of the expensive kind, like the Pioneer PL-L1000. There are probably cheaper exceptions, but no idea of their quality...

 

[GuidoK]

Sony PS-X555es and PS-x800 also take normal cartridges. But are also expensive and notoriously unreliable, especially the ps-x800 which is probably the world's most complicated turntable to service (I think there are about 30 trimpots inside, compared to for example 4 trimpots in a technics sl-10....)
Great turntable when it works though...
Lots of linear trackers also don't have VTA (I think the PL-L1000 does have that feature!) so that is something to look out for too if you want to extent your experiments.
But the PL-L1000 also has it's problems and is a bit 'plasticy' in it's construction (the lower half but maybe that can be damped). There's no perfect turntable alas....

 

[Balle Clorin]

Maybe I should worry about the VTA of my CD player instead…