Full range - March/BMR/DIYsub (read all before voting)

[concorde1]

Hi -

I have March Sointuva WG (v2) speakers.

I love/enjoy them but would like extension down to 20Hz and below.

I have 3 options:

1 - I own 2x Scanspeak Revelator 32W/4878T00 subwoofer drivers. Make two passive DIY subs with these. Use with Sointuva.

2 - Sell Sointuva (I know someone who might want to buy them) and buy Philharmonic BMR Towers (25Hz anechoic -> presumably full-range in room).

3 - Sell Sointuva ( ^ ) and buy March Ukkonen (32Hz -> near full range -> maybe good enough).

Things to consider

I paid a few grand for my power amp (Neurochrome), and designed/built many aspects of it myself - so it's the centrepiece of my system. As it is a full range amp, why not use its potential for full range speakers? ---> favours tower speakers

If I built subs I would need to sell my DAC and buy a MiniDSP Flex, AND buy an amplifier for the subs.

Subs take up a lot of room. And cables galore.

I wouldn't know where to put the subs.

March Audio is closer to where I live (New Zealand), than Philharmonic is.

Room is about 91 cubic metres (3200 cubic ft). "Medium size room" I would say.

Many thanks

 

[Sokel]

You could built two bass bins with scanspeaks and put them as base under the Sointuvas as another option,with a passive network so you won't need another amp if the existing one is up to the task.
It won't be as effective as an active one of course nor as flexible and the cost of the x-overs won't be cheap,but as an option...

 

[Matias]

I would add a couple of SVS subs and leave the Sointuvas full range, these woofers can handle tons of power with no distortion. Turning essentially into a 2.5 way sub-sat-system.

 

[concorde1]

You could built two bass bins with scanspeaks and put them as base under the Sointuvas as another option,with a passive network so you won't need another amp if the existing one is up to the task.
It won't be as effective as an active one of course nor as flexible and the cost of the x-overs won't be cheap,but as an option...

Very interesting.

Is this exactly the same design as a subwoofer but with inputs driven by my speaker amp?

My amp has two of these boards: https://neurochrome.com/products/modulus-686
(240Wpc at 8 Ohm ; 360Wpc at 4 Ohm)

In this bass bin case, would I be able to do all my DSP via Equalizer APO on PC?

Could you explain how I would achieve this "passive network"?

I would add a couple of SVS subs

Completed (non-DIY) subs are off the table - they're ridiculously expensive in NZ. That's why I got the Scanspeak drivers.

leave the Sointuvas full range, these woofers can handle tons of power with no distortion.

Thanks that might be useful to keep in mind.

 

[Sokel]

Very interesting.

Is this exactly the same design as a subwoofer but with inputs driven by my speaker amp?

My amp has two of these boards: https://neurochrome.com/products/modulus-686
(240Wpc at 8 Ohm ; 360Wpc at 4 Ohm)

In this bass bin case, would I be able to do all my DSP via Equalizer APO on PC?

Could you explain how I would achieve this "passive network"?

Completed (non-DIY) subs are off the table - they're ridiculously expensive in NZ. That's why I got the Scanspeak drivers.

Thanks that might be useful to keep in mind.

Bass bins are quite different from subs as they are put right underneath the mains.
Think of Genelec W371 which is NOT a sub but a bass module x-overed way higher (you can go to 250Hz easy with the scans) destined to give that impactfull midbass that's missing in small speakers or at speakers with subs apart from mains.Generally what a bigger 3-way would do,with similar drivers.

The passive network is a 2-way xover between mid and bass as every traditional 3-way has.You'll find a lot of help doing it either here or diyaudio and you can also play with Vituixcad designing it.
Amps are more that ok,and these scanspeak drivers are really nice.

At some point later you can even make it active with no hustle at all.
And of course you can play with EQ but as a whole speaker,not as if it was an active one.

Edit:Here's an example visually (older ones had one driver) which coincidentally has a killer sound (to my taste) :

20T V2 | Aerial Acoustics

aerialacoustics.com

 

[restorer-john]

Completed (non-DIY) subs are off the table - they're ridiculously expensive in NZ.

Really? Why not pick some up here in Australia and have them shipped over the ditch?

 

[concorde1]

Bass bins are quite different from subs as they are put right underneath the mains.
Think of Genelec W371 which is NOT a sub but a bass module x-overed way higher (you can go to 250Hz easy with the scans) destined to give that impactfull midbass that's missing in small speakers or at speakers with subs apart from mains.Generally what a bigger 3-way would do,with similar drivers.

The passive network is a 2-way xover between mid and bass as every traditional 3-way has.You'll find a lot of help doing it either here or diyaudio and you can also play with Vituixcad designing it.
Amps are more that ok,and these scanspeak drivers are really nice.

I am very grateful you suggested this bass bin idea - it is exactly what I want to do now.

Would you recommend I start a new thread on ASR's DIY section for some specific advice from users?

 

[Sokel]

I am very grateful you suggested this bass bin idea - it is exactly what I want to do now.

Would you recommend I start a new thread on ASR's DIY section for some specific advice from users?

More than recommend,along with a similar one on diyaudio.
This scanspeak drivers are highly regarded and I think you'll find a lot of feedback about them.

 

[Penelinfi]

Philharmonic BMR speakers are going to sound quite different owing to their wider dispersion than March Audio speakers, just to think about if you switch to a different type of speaker

 

[Keith_W]

That was an easy question!

1. If you like the sound of your Sointuva's there is no reason to change them.
2. Subwoofers are ALWAYS better than a speaker that extends down to 20Hz. The reason is that you can position subs where they are most advantageous for the bass, and you position speakers where they are most advantageous for imaging.

However, there are reasons to get a big speaker that extends down low. (1) you don't have space or budget for a sub, and (2) integrating a sub into a system is not easy. It requires measurements, an understanding of room acoustics, and preferably DSP. As Amir says, "subs are for advanced users". I have to agree.