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full price AVR -3700H or half price NAD T-777v3

Phayes

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Newbie to membership but been following ASR for quite a while. I am not able to follow all the tech stuff but avidly read reviews nonetheless.
This is my current set-up: Room 3.5x5 metres, regular British sitting room (multi purpose); ; Marantz NR1603 avr; Rotel RA1520 integrated; source CCA and Marantz UD7007 disc player; Rega RS3 fronts; Rega centre; Q Acoustics 2010i rears (actually sides); BK Gemini sub.I listen to anything with emotion, have usual age-related hearing loss. Mainly stereo music but enjoy the 5.1 with films.
So... on the basis of my readings of ASR I had pretty well decided the best way to improve my system would be to get the Denon, partly as an upgrade and partly for room equalization which I suspect is the best way to improve my system. However I could get the NAD 777v3 for half the original price (ex demo). What thinks you?
 

Koeitje

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Denon performs so much better, with NAD I'd avoid pretty much everything digital.
 

peng

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I are not very sensitive to hearing distortions you probably should choose based on features and functionality that suits your application assuming the half price NAD still comes with a full manufacturer warranty.
 

fieldcar

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I had good luck buying the 3700h on greentoe.com despite it almost looking like a scammy site.

My offer at $950 was accepted within a few hours. It shipped from an e-tailer that I had purchased from before, so that was cool. Overall, I'm happy I gave that site a chance.

I absolutely love my X3700H. The only thing that is kind of disappointing is the heat output, which degrades amplifier performance at high volumes and I don't like most of the sound modes for music except plain old stereo modes. I don't really care though, since the fidelity feels on par with my D50S+THX AAA 789 headphone amp stack and the audyssey XT32 is incredible.

Good luck deciding.

https://www.greentoe.com/product/Denon_AVR-X3700H_9-2-Channel_Network_A-V_Receiver_AVRX3700H
*OUT OF STOCK AS OF 12/17
 
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Phayes

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Anyone preferring the NAD? Many thanks for the above, it looks like I can't go wrong with the Denon. Or are there any other suggestions?;)
 

Roland

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This is terribly unscientific, so don’t shoot me, but it’s my experience. Based on how well it measured, I recently bought a Denon avc-x3700h to accompany a new tv in the second lounge. I already have a Denon avr-x7200wa for the main lounge. The x3700 weighs 12.5kg, the x7200 17.8kg and the difference in sound quality for stereo music broadly reflects the relative weights with the same Revel f206s front speakers and the same SMSL SU-8s in each room! I exchanged the x3700 for an ex display Yamaha RX-A3080 which weighs 19.6kg and again, the sound quality reflects its weight.

Much the same measure of the size of the power transformer in an A/B amp is the maximum power consumption: the x3700 is 660 watts, the x7200 is 780 watts and the Yamaha RX-A3080 is 1210 watts, again a pretty good reflection of the relative sound quality.

The NAD T777 weighs 20.5 kg, so it’s a no brainer: if Sevenoaks at Bromley have still got it, buy it ‘cos it’s an absolute bargain! It will sound far better than the Denon avc-3700h. Or buy the ex display Yamaha RX-A3060 they’ve got at their Maidstone branch.
 

PHH

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The factory refurbished NAD T777v3 I bought recently had a dead front display so it went back...
 

peng

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This is terribly unscientific, so don’t shoot me, but it’s my experience. Based on how well it measured, I recently bought a Denon avc-x3700h to accompany a new tv in the second lounge. I already have a Denon avr-x7200wa for the main lounge. The x3700 weighs 12.5kg, the x7200 17.8kg and the difference in sound quality for stereo music broadly reflects the relative weights with the same Revel f206s front speakers and the same SMSL SU-8s in each room! I exchanged the x3700 for an ex display Yamaha RX-A3080 which weighs 19.6kg and again, the sound quality reflects its weight.

Much the same measure of the size of the power transformer in an A/B amp is the maximum power consumption: the x3700 is 660 watts, the x7200 is 780 watts and the Yamaha RX-A3080 is 1210 watts, again a pretty good reflection of the relative sound quality.

The NAD T777 weighs 20.5 kg, so it’s a no brainer: if Sevenoaks at Bromley have still got it, buy it ‘cos it’s an absolute bargain! It will sound far better than the Denon avc-3700h. Or buy the ex display Yamaha RX-A3060 they’ve got at their Maidstone branch.

Not necessarily! Power consumption figures are not always a reliable indicator of transformer size (VA) because manufacturers don't follow the same rules/standards for the power consumption specifications. The power output specs are actually more reliable because most at least follow some sort of rules and standards such as FTC., though they don't seem to want to disclose exactly which one the follow.
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (eCFR)

It is sad that, there don't seem to be stricter rules/standards enforced/regulated to product audio hobbyist/enthusiasts. Thanks to sites such as ASR, at least we can rely to a large extent on bench measurements.

Take a look of the Yamaha 3080's specs on weight and power consumption:
RX-A3080/RX-A2080 Owner's Manual (yamaha.com)

Power Consumption......................................................................................................................................................................................... 490 W
Maximum Power Consumption [Brazil, Asia, Taiwan, Central and South America and General models]........................1210 W

So if you just read "Power Consumption, it is 490 W

Now look at the weight specs:

• Weight [RX-A3080] [China, Australia, U.K., Europe, Middle East and Russia models] ............................................................................... 19.6 kg (43.2 lbs)

[Other models]...................................................... 18.1 kg (39.9 lbs)

Denon/Marantz do not specify "Maximum" power consumption, just " Power consumption"

So you can't compare the spec between the two brands unless you know the specific rules/standards they follow.

As for weight, Yamaha has a larger enclosure and that could be one reason why in general they seem to run cooler.
Denon/Marantz's design allow their units to run warmer, apparently rely more on the temperature controlled fans, and probably use more plastic, so they are lighter not necessarily because they use lower VA transformers, could even be larger in VA while lighter in weight depending on their custom design/build specs. Note that the NA (such as US, Canada) Yamaha RX-A3080 are 3.3 lbs lighter, that may have something to do with the lower power supply voltage, 110/120 V vs 220/240 V but there could be other reasons too, that likely don't affect "sound quality".

NAD's are generally heavier, but if you look at their bench tests (that don't lie), their measured output on the bench have been consistently lower than Denon/Marantz and Yamaha's, even under 5, 7 channel driven conditions, 8 or 4 Ohms. So going by just weight and power consumption may be fine and "scientific" if you are comparing models of within the same brand and model year, but clearly not if you are comparing units across different brands/model/model years.

Anyway, it is not uncommon people hear "better sound" from heavier, pricier or even better looking (to them) products because they expected it..
 

Roland

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I'm sure you're right and it's a bad case of psychoacoustics which validates my decision to swap it out (particularly as I can't directly compare the Denon avc-x3700 with the Yamaha RX-A 3080 simultaneously)! However, the Yamaha definitely sounds better to my ears than the Denon avr-x7200 I still have, but again perhaps I prefer the type of distortion of one compared with the other. Then again, I did feel that the x3700 sounded thin and harsh - it would go seriously loud, but it was unpleasant to listen to so I ended up regularly turning it down whether with music or films or tv. However this could again have been as a result of preconceived perceptual bias because it didn't weigh enough!!
 

fieldcar

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I'm sure you're right and it's a bad case of psychoacoustics which validates my decision to swap it out (particularly as I can't directly compare the Denon avc-x3700 with the Yamaha RX-A 3080 simultaneously)! However, the Yamaha definitely sounds better to my ears than the Denon avr-x7200 I still have, but again perhaps I prefer the type of distortion of one compared with the other. Then again, I did feel that the x3700 sounded thin and harsh - it would go seriously loud, but it was unpleasant to listen to so I ended up regularly turning it down whether with music or films or tv. However this could again have been as a result of preconceived perceptual bias because it didn't weigh enough!!
The 3700 does clip a bit earlier compared to my old HTR-5890, but both are not even remotely close to the power output of my Behringer A500, which I'm now using to power one of my subs that had a bad amp. IMO, if "vibrating your earlobes" is your thing, You'll need an external amp. I plan to eventually run a Purifi/hypex or something similar for my jbl 590's.
 
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