Full “surround sound” with headphones?

[Dogen]

Hello!
Is there any reason that a full surround-speaker experience can’t be delivered through headphones/earbuds? After all, we only have two monaural ears, and our brains construct location of sounds from phase, etc. In theory, could surround sound through headphones sound just like a surround speaker setup? Why is that not really the case now?

I definitely get some sound localization with Atmos on headphones, but it’s not really as discrete as a speaker setup. So I’m wondering…

 

[olieb]

Hello!
Is there any reason that a full surround-speaker experience can’t be delivered through headphones/earbuds? After all, we only have two monaural ears, and our brains construct location of sounds from phase, etc. In theory, could surround sound through headphones sound just like a surround speaker setup? Why is that not really the case now?

I definitely get some sound localization with Atmos on headphones, but it’s not really as discrete as a speaker setup. So I’m wondering…

The problem is, that with headphones/earphones you are missing
- crossfeed from left speakers to right ear and vice versa
- the HRTF with its specific (and personal) signature FR from speakers (in different positions) to your ears
EDIT:
- the ability to move your head while the sound stays fixed in the room (aka head tracking)

All this can be simulated/virtualized with VST plugins like dearVR Monitor( free) or APL Virtuoso ($80-200). For stereo and for Atmos as well.

Threads of Binaural virtualization users.

I tried submitting an entry to try Dolby PGRTF out but got no feedback from Dolby. I've been considering using Mesh2HRTF, but since there is this service offered by Dolby that seems like it's free, maybe it doesn't make sense to go through all the hassle of generating the SOFA file by yourself...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[phoenixdogfan]

The problem is, that with headphones/earphones you are missing
- crossfeed from left speakers to right ear and vice versa
- the HRTF with its specific (and personal) signature FR from speakers (in different positions) to your ears.

All this can be simulated/virtualized with VST plugins like dearVR Monitor or APL Virtuoso. For stereo and for Atmos as well.

Threads of Binaural virtualization users.

I tried submitting an entry to try Dolby PGRTF out but got no feedback from Dolby. I've been considering using Mesh2HRTF, but since there is this service offered by Dolby that seems like it's free, maybe it doesn't make sense to go through all the hassle of generating the SOFA file by yourself...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Cue the Smyth A16 Realiser:

Realiser A16 the world's most advanced 3d audio processor

The Realiser A16 is the world’s most advanced personalised head-tracked 3D headphone processor, rendering 15.1.8ch Dolby Atmos with breath-taking realism.

smyth-research.com

 

[Madlop26]

If you read about the complexity of sound localization by the hearing system you easily conclude that 2 fixed speakers (headphones) can not deliver a true surround sound.

 

[kemmler3D]

The main things this needs to work are mentioned by @olieb - a personalized hrtf / brtf and a head tracking spatialization DSP. Totally doable but not universal or mainstream today.

 

[Dogen]

If you read about the complexity of sound localization by the hearing system you easily conclude that 2 fixed speakers (headphones) can not deliver a true surround sound.

Thanks…Why is this the case, when we listen with two fixed mono “microphones” (our ears)? Is there some directional information that can’t be delivered with one driver?

 

[kemmler3D]

Is there some directional information that can’t be delivered with one driver?

Yes, aside from timing/phase amplitude differences, TL;DR your ears (pinnae) and in fact your whole body filters incoming audio in such a way that it adds directional information on the way to the eardrum. e.g. the same sound coming from the same distance in front, above, or behind you will have a different spectrum at the eardrum.

So in order to produce a surround-sound effect, you need to add that filtering to the signal chain, which is why you need a personal HRTF for simulated surround to work well, and why you also need head tracking for it to be convincing. Without the latter your brain quickly notices the sound sources seem to be attached to your head...

 

[Madlop26]

Human sound localization:
1. Binaural cues:
- interaural time difference
- Interaural Level difference
These are the ones that a headphone can use, but, you need much more for good sound localization, as a sound coming in front will sound as equal a from the back also not different coming from up or down.
2 . Monoaural Cues; basically, is the role of the Pinna, filter the sound according where the sound is coming from, of course headphones can not use it as are always relatively fixed to your ears and probably too close.
3, Head-related transfer function, mainly how your skull and torso filters sound according where the sound is coming from, headphones also can do little about it.
4 dynamic cues , slight movement of your head will improve localization as the sound changes related to the factors above, apple use this but only with the binaural cues. seems to be quite difficult with the other cues.
5 Visual cues, yeah is part of it.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

I watched this video by Darko: The world's BEST VALUE home theatre system

I then bought a pair of Airpods Max and I've been testing the spatial audio on an Apple TV with movies and music. I can understand Darko's point of view after trying the Airpods Max. I'm still figuring out if there is a legitimate surround effect with Dolby Atmos and I have a Schiit Syn that I will also be comparing to over the next few weeks.

I have the Hifime S1 and I was going to try 5.1 from my Apple TV (via my TV's optical output) into a Windows PC and Virtuoso mentioned above. If I have time, maybe add Auro3d Auromatic.

My current view is that the Airpods Max for Dolby Atmos and movies is promising and I think they are "ok" for music. I can't deny, they are extremely convenient to use, I take them out the case, put them on my head and they automatically connect to the Apple TV or Ipad.