Keith_W
Master Contributor
What the?!?!? Has your account been hacked?!?!?
-
Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Frustrated with ASR's view on op-amps
- Thread starter olds1959special
- Start date
- Status
What the?!?!? Has your account been hacked?!?!?
Robin L
Master Contributor
JSmith
Master Contributor
@olds1959special ... I hope you got Amir's joke. 
This is why I had a go at Fosi;
audiosciencereview.com
JSmith
This is why I had a go at Fosi;
Fosi Audio ZD3 Balanced DAC Review
Your reply there comes across as quite… Dunno the word. In my native language we have a saying: «Lage storm i vannglass» Translates to making a storm in a glass of water. I’m guessing you pick up on the meaning. I bought the unit, swapped the op-amps; it came with an extra set. Swapped the...
audiosciencereview.com
JSmith
Like Signal to Noise ratio or Signal over Noise and Distortion, or gain? Yes. I measured all of those parameters that make up 'dynamics' on each of the opamps in your other thread. If I had a Sparkos, it would likely be close to the performance of the Opamps I tested. And the performance I measured indicates the preamplifier alters the signal by about 6 parts per million. The signal coming out of my preamp is only 0.0006% altered from the input. The Sparkos, unless it is broken (which it likely isn't), isn't going to alter the signal enough to make an audible difference.
Edit, added a link to the actual measurements. I lost track of the numerous threads you have going on this topic...
Last edited:
Sadly they don't make an op-amp for that use.....
Did not catch the irony eh?
Robin L
Master Contributor
What would you recommend for Tuvan Throat Singing?
Noise cancelling ear defenders?
JSmith
Master Contributor
Instead of rolling opamps, you may prefer to waste time on cables instead;
JSmith
Of course they do, 741.
Robin L
Master Contributor
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Yes, you can derive it from the frequency response at max. output level, S/N ratio and distortion.
NOTHING indicates there is even the slightest hint of any differences between these op-amps in the device you tested them in to ever reach audible thresholds.
In order for something to actually sound different the actual output waveform HAS to be different enough to reach audible levels.
This simply does not happen... even remotely close.... with the op-amps you tried.
Amir's and measurements of others clearly show this.
They do differ measurably but far below any known (and even strictest) audible thresholds that it technically is not even possible to detect it in any other way than using a proper analyzer.
Just because you can see differences (at arguably inaudible levels) does not mean you can hear them. Even with music you know well.
B.t.w. the music you use to detect these audible differences has been proven to be the poorest choice to determine sound quality/tonal balance in blind tests.
Also research has shown that even when nothing changed during listening tests but listeners have been told they listened to A and B and pointed the listeners to 'alleged' differences they had a clear preference for A or B even when factually nothing changed. This is the effect that you are experiencing too.
Your brain is. You are human are you not ?
You mentioned you know how variable hearing is.
That is what many people experience too and why you can find so many elaborate 'sound impressions' on various op-amps... simply because they are human and trust their hearing in conditions where they can not trust them.
A bit akin to optical illusions. This works for all people even when we know a drawing on paper does not (appear to) move and yet ... we keep seeing it move.
This is the same with op-amp rolling in your case. You keep hearing things when your brain knows what is in the device. It is even highly repeatable and that's what makes it appear real.
Because .... statistical relevant blind testing is obligatory when using the hearing to detect differences.
It requires at least 2 persons to do this and has a protocol.
Sighted (more correct knowing what is in there) is not a proper testing method.
Exactly.
I believe you actually perceive these differences but they are not of 'electrical origin'.
My measurement devices are only rarely used.
Listening to music is a daily routine.
Perception ≠ science but one can study perception and perception can be used to detect audible differences. This, however, MUST be done in controlled circumstances.
Last edited:
Dynamics is easily measurable, speaking in objective technical terms. Dynamics as a subjective impression of an individual human being is not measurable, it is a product of brains that depends on non acoustical inputs. That is the key of your thread.
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2023
- Messages
- 93
- Likes
- 173
OP, an op-amp is a very basic electrical circuit component that has nothing to do with music. If you have two op-amps with the same electrical specs that sound different, there is most likely a problem with one of them. If you want to alter the sound to your liking, technically speaking (not trying to tell you what to do) you have to look elsewhere in the chain such as with tone controls or a DSP. An op-amp ain’t it.
Svend P
Addicted to Fun and Learning
What? That is outrageous... oh no:
Someone told me the LM4562 is the technically superior op-amp, not hype like Sparkos and Muse. A google search indicates this too, and I had one in my stash so I put it in my Fosi P4.
www.avaq.com
LM4562 vs NE5532: What are Differences and How to Choose - Avaq
The comparison between the LM4562 and NE5532 operational amplifiers (op-amps) is an essential journey into the world of audio electronics, where the intricacies of sound quality and performance are paramount. In this article, we will delve into the distinctions between the LM4562 and NE5532 op-amps.
Completely forgiven. I've done all sorts of mods, like built 25 pound crossovers that cost more than most people's nice speakers for no purpose at all:
I just dug this out of the cabinet of my dark past, and embarrasses me to my core. It has all of the earmarks of an amateur attempt to waste as much money as possible. These costly parts added or subtracted nothing from the sound.
All of this was a distraction. My background is in physical electronics, and I should have known better than to waste so much money on expensive woo woo components that could be sourced for a fraction of the price with equivalent performance. I had lots of influence from the usual carnival barking crowd in high end audio, which is deafening. Time and learning measurements and the interpretation of the results is about the only way to deal with all of this, and to verify if what you are hearing is an actual difference, let alone improvement.
Last edited:
It is... the circle of confusion... literally.What? That is outrageous... oh no:
Someone told me the LM4562 is the technically superior op-amp, not hype like Sparkos and Muse. A google search indicates this too, and I had one in my stash so I put it in my Fosi P4.
LM4562 vs NE5532: What are Differences and How to Choose - Avaq
The comparison between the LM4562 and NE5532 operational amplifiers (op-amps) is an essential journey into the world of audio electronics, where the intricacies of sound quality and performance are paramount. In this article, we will delve into the distinctions between the LM4562 and NE5532 op-amps.
Talisman
Major Contributor
The issue here isn't whether there's a difference or not; the real question to ask is much simpler.
If you feel an improvement in sound with the Sparkos, and you're convinced and happy about it, why are you here asking for confirmation that you know won't come? Why do you need ASR certification of your sensations? If you're convinced, just go your own way.
If you feel an improvement in sound with the Sparkos, and you're convinced and happy about it, why are you here asking for confirmation that you know won't come? Why do you need ASR certification of your sensations? If you're convinced, just go your own way.
So you're saying there are things that you can hear, but we cannot measure?
valerianf
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Let us go back to the basics: analog electronic.
Every EE that has placed an oscilloscope probe at the I/Os of an Op Amp knows that the input or output stage behave differently depending of the electronic that is connected around it.
So yes, changing an Op Amp for a different one may change the audio signal (not only the SINAD but also that the analog signal shape due to I/O load).
As we are not using an oscilloscope in our usual daily life, we can only rely on our far from perfect listening to catch if one Op Amp is more suitable to our taste.
Long time ago, I remember that I was not satisfied with the sound of my Pioneer Laserdisc player.
I studied the electrical schematic of the analog board and found that toward the RCA outputs there were some Op Amps that were on a socket (DIL package).
I ordered a (Burr Brown) very performant Op Amp that I already used on my designs.
The result in sound quality was fully satisfying.
For sure I paid the Burr Brown Op Amp may be 50 time the price from the OEM Op Amp.
In the analog path of the audio signal, it is always rewarding to use performant ICs, when cost is not a limitation.
Every EE that has placed an oscilloscope probe at the I/Os of an Op Amp knows that the input or output stage behave differently depending of the electronic that is connected around it.
So yes, changing an Op Amp for a different one may change the audio signal (not only the SINAD but also that the analog signal shape due to I/O load).
As we are not using an oscilloscope in our usual daily life, we can only rely on our far from perfect listening to catch if one Op Amp is more suitable to our taste.
Long time ago, I remember that I was not satisfied with the sound of my Pioneer Laserdisc player.
I studied the electrical schematic of the analog board and found that toward the RCA outputs there were some Op Amps that were on a socket (DIL package).
I ordered a (Burr Brown) very performant Op Amp that I already used on my designs.
The result in sound quality was fully satisfying.
For sure I paid the Burr Brown Op Amp may be 50 time the price from the OEM Op Amp.
In the analog path of the audio signal, it is always rewarding to use performant ICs, when cost is not a limitation.
- Status
Similar threads
