Frustrated with ASR's view on op-amps

[olds1959special]

I have been experimenting with op-amps in my Fosi P4 and can clearly hear that after all the ones I tried, the Sparkos SS3602 sounds excellent. I previously thought it sounded harsh and bright, with boomy bass, but even if this is true to some degree overall it is best choice of op-amp I've tried in this application. Why is it then, that folks here deny the benefits of op-amp rolling? My ears are not lying to me. The only challenge is to choose a single op-amp to stick with, but having tried five so far, I am tired of experimenting. So I plan to leave things alone now. That's my goal, to achieve the best result and leave it alone.

Using the stock op-amp did not provide the most musical enjoyment, and that's my point, why can't people here recognize this? Put your measurement devices away for a second and try listening to music.

 

[JSmith]

JSmith

 

[Curvature]

You may break your devices with random swapping. Opamps have a simple job that can be messed up and lead to instability.

If you don't know what you're doing don't mess with the innards. Otherwise, ask yourself, why aren't you changing resistors and everything else too?

Come on. Read some books and quit tweaking.

Oh, and feel free to look this up at your nearest university: the number of books about swapping opamps: 0.

 

[MAB]

You post lots of request for help understanding your gear.

When you get help, you seem to get irritated at the answers. At times, seems like you want to learn and understand, then a few hours later, you launch a new thread asking the same question, or double back on your unfounded impressions.

Imagine someone repeatedly asking for help, and getting frustrated at the answers. Who is that on?

 

[Bow_Wazoo]

My ears are not lying to me.

It's not your ears. It's your brain.

 

[Chrispy]

I have been experimenting with op-amps in my Fosi P4 and can clearly hear that after all the ones I tried, the Sparkos SS3602 sounds excellent. I previously thought it sounded harsh and bright, with boomy bass, but even if this is true to some degree overall it is best choice of op-amp I've tried in this application. Why is it then, that folks here deny the benefits of op-amp rolling? My ears are not lying to me. The only challenge is to choose a single op-amp to stick with, but having tried five so far, I am tired of experimenting. So I plan to leave things alone now. That's my goal, to achieve the best result and leave it alone.

Using the stock op-amp did not provide the most musical enjoyment, and that's my point, why can't people here recognize this? Put your measurement devices away for a second and try listening to music.

Your comparison is undefined and likely not well performed as far as any sort of proof goes. You may have your experience, but that isn't particularly definitive. Unless you have a great way to control comparisons, which you don't, hard to know if they mean much.

 

[EERecordist]

Getting frustrated about what other people say on the Internet is not a good use of time.

Everyone's audio cortex, higher brain functions, and listening experience that trained it is different.

If a particular piece of equipment makes you happy enjoy it.

There have been many discussions about opamps and electronic design by people who have done it for their careers. Just skip those posts. Other people will be interested in those posts and the ins and outs of testing and test equipment.

There are probably more subjective discussion-oriented forums to be found on the Internet for people who like that.

 

[Curvature]

It's not your ears. It's your brain.

View attachment 464860

10/10 demonstration.

 

[olds1959special]

You post lots of request for help understanding your gear.

When you get help, you seem to get irritated at the answers. At times, seems like you want to learn and understand, then a few hours later, you launch a new thread asking the same question, or double back on your unfounded impressions.

Imagine someone repeatedly asking for help, and getting frustrated at the answers. Who is that on?

I have learned a ton from lurking here and asking questions, but sometimes it takes me some trial and error before I come to any conclusions. In this case, I've decided to believe in this op-amp because it's working better for me than anything else I've tried. I don't think anyone here helped me figure this out though, it's just my ears that tell me. The reasons aren't even that important, as long as I'm happy and have no desire to roll op-amps anymore. At least I tried different things and didn't assume the stock op-amp was the best option.

 

[MAB]

I have learned a ton from lurking here and asking questions, but sometimes it takes me some trial and error before I come to any conclusions.

You should study human perception and hearing, understand why we are susceptible to sighted bias completely owning our perception. Which leads to why blind testing is so important.

I must admit, I am getting a bit tired of putting an effort into explaining things to you. It does take some effort, and TBH you lash out quite a bit when things are explained. This isn't the first time. That attitude pisses me off to be blunt, does that make sense? You are the one asking the question, not me. So perhaps tone down your frustration, unless you want to learn nothing.

 

[olds1959special]

You should study human perception and hearing, understand why we are susceptible to sighted bias completely owning our perception. Which leads to why blind testing is so important.

I must admit, I am getting a bit tired of putting an effort into explaining things to you. It does take some effort, and TBH you lash out quite a bit when things are explained. This isn't the first time. That attitude pisses me off to be blunt, does that make sense? You are the one asking the question, not me. So perhaps tone down your frustration, unless you want to learn nothing.

Maybe I'm just confused. Forgive me. Why does the Sparkos SS3602 sound better when everyone here says it's not supposed to? Isn't this an audio forum for hi-fi lovers who want to experience music? Why do lots of people like Sparkos op-amps and feel similarly about this? Are we all just experiencing some sort of illusion?

 

[JSmith]

Why does the Sparkos SS3602 sound better

Expectation/confirmation bias most likely.


JSmith

 

[Sokel]

Maybe I'm just confused. Forgive me. Why does the Sparkos SS3602 sound better when everyone here says it's not supposed to? Isn't this an audio forum for hi-fi lovers who want to experience music? Why do lots of people like Sparkos op-amps and feel similarly about this? Are we all just experiencing some sort of illusion?

How many OPAs did you change per channel?
I mean how many the device uses, not how many did you change.

 

[Beave]

 

[MAB]

Maybe I'm just confused. Forgive me. Why does the Sparkos SS3602 sound better when everyone here says it's not supposed to? Isn't this an audio forum for hi-fi lovers who want to experience music? Why do lots of people like Sparkos op-amps and feel similarly about this? Are we all just experiencing some sort of illusion?

We are all confused. It's called bias. It comes from many sources, sighted being one of those.
For instance:

You are likely also looking for some confirmation. Just knowing you swapped a fancy Sparkos Opamp into your gear causes you to never have a chance at a valid evaluation, you expect a difference, your mind will give you one even if none exist.

Add to that, our ears are just not made for measuring things. Add to that our ears have very odd response characteristics. I've posted this to you before, people imagining differences when none exist:

Audio Listening Test That Fooled the Hollywood Sapphire Group

Some of the most highly trained audiophiles in the industry were asked to do a blind “A-B” listening comparison test of two audio circuits. Were they able to hear a difference, or were they fooled?

www.audioholics.com

 

[olds1959special]

Aren't things like dynamics measurable? The SS3602 clearly has more dynamics than other op-amps.

 

[Sokel]

How many OPAs did you change per channel?
I mean how many the device uses, not how many did you change.

Ok, scrap that, I had a look myself, one.

Now look, this piece of gear uses 4 per channel.

Look at the difference:


LME 49720



OPA2134

If 4 of them in a row make no difference, imagine only one of them.
So?

 

[Joe Smith]

Just endlessly reporting what sounds better to you is not particularly helpful to others, unless you provide measurements, data. For all the reasons others have mentioned here. All the subjective impressions don’t matter. If you are happy with what you’re hearing, that’s good, but then you are best off leaving it alone and not endlessly re-tweaking things…

 

[amirm]

Using the stock op-amp did not provide the most musical enjoyment, and that's my point, why can't people here recognize this?

Well, we listen to different kind of music. You have to match the op-amp to music you are listening to. The op-amp that is good for say, classical music, is not going to sound good with rock as those audiences never mix. This is why everyone has their favorite op-amp. Different music, different audio "processor."

 

[olds1959special]

Well, we listen to different kind of music. You have to match the op-amp to music you are listening to. The op-amp that is good for say, classical music, is not going to sound good with rock as those audiences never mix. This is why everyone has their favorite op-amp. Different music, different audio "processor."

fwiw, I listen to mostly jazz / big band / vocal pop.