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Front or rear ported monitors in very small room...

MMoodyB

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Hi all,

I'm hoping to get some advice on what my next step should be in a very small room with the desk tight against a wall.

The room is 8 1/2 ft long and 7ft wide. Desk is off centre on the longer wall, close to a corner.
The right side speaker is 10 inches away from the corner wall, and the front of the speakers are 8 inches away from the wall behind them.

Desk-setup.jpg



A few days ago I picked up a set of Eris 5's due to Black Friday (£82 each).
I picked these over the Edifier MR4's due to the E5's being front ported, which I thought would be a better idea & lead to less issues for my room / desk setup.

After setting them up & playing around with their position, etc... I've noticed a distinct resonance somewhere around 125hz ( solo'd a eq band in Bitwig to narrow it down ) that gets fairy annoying after a while.

It becomes less of an issue to me if I set the 'Low Cutoff' switch on the speaker to 100hz. Although reducing the bass that much defeats the purpose of buying these in the first place.
That's also with the 'Acoustic Space' switches both set to -4dB as well.

Other than the resonance, sound quality-wise the E5's are miles ahead of the Logitech speakers ( plus a matching Logi sub under the desk) you see next to them, so in that respect they are a big improvement but I know the resonance will continue to annoy me in the long term.

So, do I stick with these and use eq cuts in Equalizer APO to try and fix the issue, or would I be better returning them and going with the MR4's + one of the various eq profiles that are available?

Any help / advice would be appreciated.
 

DJBonoBobo

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You will always need room eq in a small room, regardless of the BR port.
Your next step: Buy a measurement mic like the UMIK 1, if you don't have one yet.
 

AdamG247

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Ports normally need some space to breathe. So if you are placing the speaker boxes close to the back wall? You may get better results with forward facing ports. In general.
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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Ports normally need some space to breathe. So if you are placing the speaker boxes close to the back wall? You may get better results with forward facing ports. In general.
I have a floordstanding in my small room, i just skip the "space to breathe" the FR in my room is a mess in the bass region, but holy shit the bass down to 25hz nicely and at 30hz its +0dB,
The umik1 did the magic thing, i have to EQ the left and the right channel alone but sounds really good.
Always use the umik1 in smalish room if you want quality sound.
3.3 meters x 3 meters room
 
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MMoodyB

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Thanks for the replys all.

So regardless of front or rear ported, I'm going to need to room EQ.

In that case, then I might as well return the E5's and get the MR4's instead along with a Behringer ECM8000 or Omnitronic MM-2usb mic?

With the MR4's, I'd have 4-5 inches between the wall & the rear of the speaker as a minimum

( have a limited budget due to Xmas coming up )
 

RobL

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The E5’s do have an “Acoustic Space” switch on the back. Did you try cutting the bass (-4db for the one in the corner, -2db for the one against the wall)?
+1 on eventually buying (or maybe borrow?) a measurement mic. That’s the only way you’ll really know what’s going on.
 
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MMoodyB

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The E5’s do have an “Acoustic Space” switch on the back. Did you try cutting the bass (-4db for the one in the corner, -2db for the one against the wall)?
+1 on eventually buying (or maybe borrow?) a measurement mic. That’s the only way you’ll really know what’s going on.
I did. Tried a variety of settings, along with setting the 'Low Cutoff' to either 80Hz or 100Hz as well.
Also tried the speakers flat on the desk, and on less / more foam pad.

The only time the resonance became less noticeable was with a 'low cuttoff' of 100Hz set on both speakers.

Been playing around & I've found I can get a slightly better result by leaving the low cuttoff at 'flat' and setting an eq band in Peace at 130Hz with a -7dB cut + Q of 12.
Gets rid of the majority of the resonance, and leaves a bit more bass audible than the 100Hz cut switch does.

I guess my last question would be are the rear ported MR4 likely to be harder to correct than the front ported E5's?

Or will it not matter since they're likely to be as bad as one another in such a small room?

( I've a feeling DjBonoBobo answered this with his 1st reply )
 

DJBonoBobo

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I guess my last question would be are the rear ported MR4 likely to be harder to correct than the front ported E5's?

Or will it not matter since they're likely to be as bad as one another in such a small room?

( I've a feeling DjBonoBobo answered this with his 1st reply )
With a front ported speaker you have more options. You can place it very close to the wall or with some gap. The rear ported one cannot be placed directly to the wall. What speaker or placement is better in your specific case i don't know.
As soon as you are using EQ you will be more focused on minimizing dips, because reducing peaks is no problem with EQ. In most cases it is easier to avoid dips if the speakers are as close as possible to the front wall.
 

LTig

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With a cheap speaker I'd prefer not to have the port on the front due to port resonances. That's fine if you have at least 2-4 inches of clearing at the port.

However the 150 Hz resonance could result from reflections at the desktop. Place the speakers higher (tweeters at ear height, worked miracles here) or use the corresponding EQ setting of the speaker.
 
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sktn77a

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"Front or rear ported monitors in very small room..."

Neither - get a sealed box like an LS3/5a or a Strada 2.
 
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MMoodyB

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With a cheap speaker I'd prefer not to have the port on the front due to port resonances. That's fine if you hve at least 2-4 inches of clearing at the 6port.

Howver the 150 Hz resonance could result from reflections at the desktop. Place the speakers higher (tweeters at ear height, worked miracles here) or use the corresponding EQ setting of the speaker.

Raising them higher up off the desk is the one thing I haven't tried yet. Will test this out later.
 
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MMoodyB

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Quick update. My Behringer ECM8000 arrived yesterday and after a rough 5 pass positional average through REW it identified a massive peak at 127mhz & 2 slightly lower ones at 81mhz & 149mhz, along with a deep dip at 221mhz.

As you'd expect there's a lot going on in such a small room, but those 4 areas stood out.

Admittedly I'm still watching vids & reading up on REW to get the best from it with my budget setup, but even a 1st pass eq using the stock house curve in REW has made a large difference to the audio quality to the point that I don't feel the need to return the speakers due to the lower end resonances.

So a big thank you to all that offered their advice. It's appreciated.
 

LTig

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Did you notice any effect on the resonances while raising the speakers up? Would be nice to see REW measurements for current and raised position.
 
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MMoodyB

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Did you notice any effect on the resonances while raising the speakers up? Would be nice to see REW measurements for current and raised position.

Not really to be honest, although I only had them up on a pile of books + the foam pads I use on my desk, so not the best setup.

Here's the 5 pass average graph from earlier. This was done in a hurry while my dog was out a walk earlier today.

This was with them on my desk, angled at my ears & pushed up against the wall on the foam pads :

E5_5-pass-RMS-Average.jpg


Once I've leared more about what I should be doing I'll calculate a separate eq for each speaker, rather than as a pair as it is now.

And then rerun it all again when I get them up on half decent stands ( won't be for a while )
 

DSJR

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"Front or rear ported monitors in very small room..."

Neither - get a sealed box like an LS3/5a or a Strada 2.
LS3/5A's in trad KEF-driver form have a deliberate bump-up in the response at 120Hz or so and nothing below 80Hz apart from doubling. The response above shows me that a 3.5A unequalised wouldn't be a good idea.

Small actives offer so much these days and for little money. Could a half decent sub be factored in eventually cost-wise and then blended somehow to help smooth the respose a bit more? Just a thought...
 
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MMoodyB

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LS3/5A's in trad KEF-driver form have a deliberate bump-up in the response at 120Hz or so and nothing below 80Hz apart from doubling. The response above shows me that a 3.5A unequalised wouldn't be a good idea.

Small actives offer so much these days and for little money. Could a half decent sub be factored in eventually cost-wise and then blended somehow to help smooth the respose a bit more? Just a thought...
A sub might be possible in the future, although another plan was to get a set of DT770's for figuring out what's really going on in the low end of any tracks I make.

( currently I have a set of HD558's with the foam removed & using a correction plugin ( currently TB Morphit ) to get a better sound out of them )

I did play around with a ' soft crossover' using Voicemeter Banana and having the E5's set to 100Hz cut, and my old 2.1 speakers' sub getting everything below 100Hz via an eq filter on the 2nd channel.
 

LTig

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Not really to be honest, although I only had them up on a pile of books + the foam pads I use on my desk, so not the best setup.
A pile of books is good enough to find out if it makes a difference, you don't need fancy stands. Buy stands only if it makes a positive difference.
 
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MMoodyB

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I'll do a comparison later with the monitors on the pads vs books + pads and post the graphs.
 
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