Freya+

[mafelba]

I see reviews for the Freya and Freya S, but not a review yet for the Freya+.

Anyone have any guesses on what affect the tubes (tube mode) of the Freya+ would have on transparency? I read that the tube mode on the Freya+ is not overly tube-like. Does all "tube-like" sound involve a lack of transparency? I would be very interested to see the Freya+ in tube mode reviewed given the prior reviews of Freya models here that could perhaps serve as a frame of reference upon which to assess the tubes on transparency.

 

[Helicopter]

I see reviews for the Freya and Freya S, but not a review yet for the Freya+.

Anyone have any guesses on what affect the tubes (tube mode) of the Freya+ would have on transparency? I read that the tube mode on the Freya+ is not overly tube-like. Does all "tube-like" sound involve a lack of transparency? I would be very interested to see the Freya+ in tube mode reviewed given the prior reviews of Freya models here that could perhaps serve as a frame of reference upon which to assess the tubes on transparency.

Now that the Freya S is discontinued, the second Freya S review thread has sort of turned into a discussion of the Freya+.

Catch up around here if you are interested.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?posts/532295/

I just proposed moving that discussion over here.

The tube gain on the Freya+ is transparent, but not as much as the other modes. Schiit website has a SNR spec of 115db for tube gain and 120 for the differential buffer, and then THDs of .01% and .004% so both should be very clean. Subjectively, this does mean tube mode is not overly tube like, in your words. You can have it either way by selecting the mode you want. The really outstanding performance is in passive mode.

 

[Matias]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/4-new-schiit-preamps.7676/post-180209

 

[PeteL]

Now that the Freya S is discontinued, the second Freya S review thread has sort of turned into a discussion of the Freya+.

Catch up around here if you are interested.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?posts/532295/

I just proposed moving that discussion over here.

The tube gain on the Freya+ is transparent, but not as much as the other modes. Schiit website has a SNR spec of 115db for tube gain and 120 for the differential buffer, and then THDs of .01% and .004% so both should be very clean. Subjectively, this does mean tube mode is not overly tube like, in your words. You can have it either way by selecting the mode you want. The really outstanding performance is in passive mode.

Personally I use mainly tube gain mode, but all tree sounds good. It is strange tough, I have the feeling, didn't measure, but quite confident on this, that with the differential buffer mode, I have a small attenuation compared to passive. Maybe one dB, I doubt it's in my head. It should be a unity gain stage, not sure if it something that someone experienced?

 

[mafelba]

The really outstanding performance is in passive mode.

I have the SYS passive right now. In your opinion, would the Freya+ passive mode be very different from the SYS?

 

[mafelba]

Subjectively, this does mean tube mode is not overly tube like, in your words. You can have it either way by selecting the mode you want. The really outstanding performance is in passive mode.

I'm new to all this, but is the tube-like sound inconsistent with the notion of transparent? When Amir measures for transparency, isn't one of the tenets that all transparent gear will sound the same? Is not a tube-like sound by definition un-transparent?

 

[Feanor]

I see reviews for the Freya and Freya S, but not a review yet for the Freya+.

Anyone have any guesses on what affect the tubes (tube mode) of the Freya+ would have on transparency? I read that the tube mode on the Freya+ is not overly tube-like. Does all "tube-like" sound involve a lack of transparency? I would be very interested to see the Freya+ in tube mode reviewed given the prior reviews of Freya models here that could perhaps serve as a frame of reference upon which to assess the tubes on transparency.

I did a totally subjective review of the Freya + here ... https://www.audioasylum.com/forums/amp/messages/23/236688.html

I agree with Helicopter that Passive mode is the most transparent -- which is to say it sounds like your source whatever may be. The Buffer mode loses little or no transparency, but the Tube stage loses some though not a lot. In fact this ought surprise no one.

 

[mafelba]

I'm a little concerned that my Schiit Modius doesnot provide enough voltage to drive my power amp. I have a SYS passive preamp which provides no gain and my amp is an NAD C 268. How can I tell if I need an active preamp? TIA.

 

[PeteL]

I'm new to all this, but is the tube-like sound inconsistent with the notion of transparent? When Amir measures for transparency, isn't one of the tenets that all transparent gear will sound the same? Is not a tube-like sound by definition un-transparent?

The Tube mode on the Freya measures quite well, even according to amir's standards. "Tube-like sound" does mean the distortion is mainly even harmonics. It means just that. It doesn't by default means "more distortion" altough in most cases that is also true, even in this case, The tube mode has more distortion than the passive mode, but it's still a relatively small number. Where exactly "transparency" starts and stops in term of distortion, Amir has it's standards I believe but they are not carved in stones rigourous numbers. It's still arbitrary.

 

[mafelba]

"Tube-like sound" does mean the distortion is mainly even harmonics..

Thank you for the reply. Very informative. Is the "even harmonics" that you refer to capable of being measured/quantified?

 

[PeteL]

Yes, in this exampleif you have a 1 K tone, the "fundamental" The even harmonics will be 2f, 4f, 6f, and so on, so the spikes at 2k and 4k are even harmonics (it happens like that, not a tube amp, it's just the last amp measured here, there is a big one at 3k, those are odd harmonics.)

 

[mafelba]

Yes, in this exampleif you have a 1 K tone, the "fundamental" The even harmonics will be 2f, 4f, 6f, and so on, so the spikes at 2k and 4k are even harmonics (it happens like that, not a tube amp, it's just the last amp measured here

Thanks. So what you are saying is that the tube preamp "flavor" that is often talked about is not distortion and that theoretically, a tube preamp could provide 0 distortion and be completely transparent and still impart that tube-like sound?

 

[PeteL]

Thanks. So what you are saying is that the tube preamp "flavor" that is often talked about is not distortion and that theoretically, a tube preamp could provide 0 distortion and be completely transparent and still impart that tube-like sound?

no, the spikes you see is distortion. an amp that has zero distortion, very unlikely, will not generate harmonics, even or odds, that's why THD stands for "Total harmonic Distortion" so the sum of all harmonics generated when you feed a pure tone. Those are not in the recording so it's distortion. All I'm saying is that tubes odd harmonics are low in amplitude compared to even.

 

[Helicopter]

I'm a little concerned that my Schiit Modius doesnot provide enough voltage to drive my power amp. I have a SYS passive preamp which provides no gain and my amp is an NAD C 268. How can I tell if I need an active preamp? TIA.

If you just want to add clean balanced gain between Modius and NAD, I would suggest a Magnius.

 

[Helicopter]

I have the SYS passive right now. In your opinion, would the Freya+ passive mode be very different from the SYS?

If you use balanced connections it will be louder with less noise, for RCAs, it might measure a little better, but not enough to hear, because Freya relay stepped volume attenuator is much better than Sys potentiometer

 

[Helicopter]

The Tube mode on the Freya measures quite well, even according to amir's standards. "Tube-like sound" does mean the distortion is mainly even harmonics. It means just that. It doesn't by default means "more distortion" altough in most cases that is also true, even in this case, The tube mode has more distortion than the passive mode, but it's still a relatively small number. Where exactly "transparency" starts and stops in term of distortion, Amir has it's standards I believe but they are not carved in stones rigourous numbers. It's still arbitrary.

Agree. The general philosophy of this website is for objective performance in sound reproduction. Transistors beat tubes on this standard almost universally, so it is fair to say tubes are inconsistent with the philosophy in general. However, the implementation if tube gain in this particular product beats solid state gain of middle of the road priducts and passive performance is top tier.

 

[mafelba]

no, the spikes you see is distortion. an amp that has zero distortion, very unlikely, will not generate harmonics, even or odds, that's why THD stands for "Total harmonic Distortion" so the sum of all harmonics generated when you feed a pure tone. Those are not in the recording so it's distortion. All I'm saying is that tubes odd harmonics are low in amplitude compared to even.

Gotcha. Thanks.

 

[mafelba]

If you just want to add clean balanced gain between Modius and NAD, I would suggest a Magnius.

I guess my question is "how do I know if I need to add clean balanced gain or not". Is there some formula involved? The only two components at issue are the modius and the nad c268 amp. is it possible to find out whether or not the modius supplies enough gain to the amp or is this something one can only learn by listening?

 

[Helicopter]

I guess my question is "how do I know if I need to add clean balanced gain or not". Is there some formula involved? The only two components at issue are the modius and the nad c268 amp. is it possible to find out whether or not the modius supplies enough gain to the amp or is this something one can only learn by listening?

Modius output is 4V max balanced, 2V max SE. NAD c268 input is rated 750mV/50kohm. Unless there is some software attenuation before the DAC, or an unusually quiet recording you should not need gain before the amp.

 

[mafelba]

Modius output is 4V max balanced, 2V max SE. NAD c268 input is rated 750mV/50kohm. Unless there is some software attenuation before the DAC, or an unusually quiet recording you should not need gain before the amp.

Thanks!