Frequency specs. worthless for a newb. ?

[LouB]

After reading posts here, (I'm getting new amp, speakers for 2 way music only system.)

Should I "feel" the sound more with floorstanding speakers vs bookshelves?

After reading a lot on this forum, I decided to go try out some revel speakers for a 5.1 home theater setup. I demoed the M105s and F208s as the L/R, paired with multiple centers and a JL audio 12" sub. I listened to various scenes in Interstellar as my test material. The speakers were sitting...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I started looking at specs. of 2 speakers I'm considering buying than realized I don't understand what the freq. specs. are or how to apply to them bass response of said speaker. So I did a google search & came across this article https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/understanding-loudspeaker-frequency-response
Which states "The short answer is that none of these frequency response ranges can be compared, for reasons that will become clear."
So bass response (room & room correction ignored) speaker JBL spec is 44-40K HZ. KLH is 42-20K HZ. I thought that the KLH would have better bass response but after reading the Audioholics article I'm now thinking the only way to tell if a speaker is is right for you is to bring it home and listen to it.
Is Audioholics correct or is there a way to actually interpret manufactures specs. for a dummy like me ?
Thanks

 

[staticV3]

"X to Y Hz" is meaningless. "X to Y Hz (±1dB)" or "X to Y Hz (-6dB)" has meaning.
Still, the best thing to do is to compare the speakers' actual frequency response graphs, not the numbers devised from them.

 

[fpitas]

Many manufacturers don't make it easy, that's for sure. They throw out encouraging numbers and hope you'll bite. But yes, properly defined frequency responses can be directly compared, as said above.

 

[LouB]

"X to Y Hz" is meaningless. "X to Y Hz (±1dB)" or "X to Y Hz (-6dB)" has meaning.
Still, the best thing to do is to compare the speakers' actual frequency response graphs, not the numbers devised from them.

Thanks for the info, So I think my question is answered as I don't see any graphs published from the manufacture or any sort of "X to Y Hz (-6db)" spec. It seems Audioholics statement is correct & the manufactures HZ specs (at least to me) are worthless.

 

[Sancus]

Specs are all worthless unless they've been verified by a 3rd party or they come from a manufacturer who has had their speakers repeatedly verified by 3rd party and shown to be accurate.

If Neumann came out with a new speaker, I'd believe their frequency range because they've proven to be consistent with 3rd party measurements. If random manufacturer that has never been measured says it, nope, especially if they don't even specify test conditions.

Even if the numbers aren't complete fiction, It's really common to fudge the bass extension in particular by just measuring it in a room and not mentioning the boundary gain. Then when someone questions it you can just say "well our measurements show X" and blame the criticism for "not using the right method". It's layers of bs all the way down with HiFi.

SPL specs are even easier to fudge and impossible to interpret without detailed information on the test methodology.

 

[OldHvyMec]

At this point I would say your idea might be the best. Listen to the speakers you like. If you bring them home and thing don't work out don't be surprised either.
50% of the sound is the room and how YOUR ears respond to the treatment in the room your listening in. What the folks at ASR provide is good sound advice.
Educate yourself about "speaker specs" vs "speaker claims" and don't discount the reviews, but WEIGH them for what they are "a subjective view".

I didn't pay attention to your gear so the question is, did you? Match the speakers to the gear or the opposite the gear to the speaker. No matter the choice it will still be the other 50% that makes that gear work in that room. Tuning the room is just as important as the physical gear side of the stereo system.

Treatment, placement, (DSP if you want), enjoyment... I just leave out the DSP for the most part.. I use simple tone controls most of the time.

Note: You mentioned AH, you use an AVR or AVP? They prefer the use of either or. The problem I have with AVRs is the sound affect. If I was playing music most of
the time I would pick a Stereo system not a multi-channel sound affect system. I still like my stereo better for movies.
If we concert with visual it is still in stereo (wide). I change the toe-in-out by 1/2" on 4 of the cabinets. 9 people can get pretty nice sound if we tier three rows.
Bean bags, chairs, stools. LOL It works very nice in an 18X24x8 room and also in a 20x30x12 shop when I really turn it up.. I can't remember the last time we did
that. 8 plus years. I'm not a TV watcher.

Regards

 

[LouB]

At this point I would say your idea might be the best. Listen to the speakers you like. If you bring them home and thing don't work out don't be surprised either.
50% of the sound is the room and how YOUR ears respond to the treatment in the room your listening in. What the folks at ASR provide is good sound advice.
Educate yourself about "speaker specs" vs "speaker claims" and don't discount the reviews, but WEIGH them for what they are "a subjective view".

I didn't pay attention to your gear so the question is, did you? Match the speakers to the gear or the opposite the gear to the speaker. No matter the choice it will still be the other 50% that makes that gear work in that room. Tuning the room is just as important as the physical gear side of the stereo system.

Treatment, placement, (DSP if you want), enjoyment... I just leave out the DSP for the most part.. I use simple tone controls most of the time.

Note: You mentioned AH, you use an AVR or AVP? They prefer the use of either or. The problem I have with AVRs is the sound affect. If I was playing music most of
the time I would pick a Stereo system not a multi-channel sound affect system. I still like my stereo better for movies.
If we concert with visual it is still in stereo (wide). I change the toe-in-out by 1/2" on 4 of the cabinets. 9 people can get pretty nice sound if we tier three rows.
Bean bags, chairs, stools. LOL It works very nice in an 18X24x8 room and also in a 20x30x12 shop when I really turn it up.. I can't remember the last time we did
that. 8 plus years. I'm not a TV watcher.

Regards

Well since the advertised specs are worthless getting speakers into a room and listing is the only option. I was thinking that since I will not be using a sub for music I might be able to at least look at the specs. & maybe get a speakers that have good bass performance. I do realize room treatment can & will make huge difference in the sound but in my case I don't have a dedicated room so there is very little I can do in that regard. You say "educate youself on specs" why bother when the manufacture specs don't mean a thing ?
Gear will be music only, 2 channel integrated amp Marantz PM8006, Marantz CD player, Yamaha streaming thing & turntable, speakers JBL L82 classic or KLH Model 5. Leaning towards the JBL due to front port & seemingly better "subjective" reviews on the bass which seems funny as the JBL's are only a 2 way speaker.
Thanks for your replie

 

[Chrispy]

Use a variety of info, manufacturer spec, measured 3rd party spec as well as a variety of actual user comments (rather than a subjective "reviewer"'s). It's kind of personal, we all have our own particular preferences....but with speakers like were mentioned a sub and good bass management can be an advantage.

 

[Sancus]

Well since the advertised specs are worthless getting speakers into a room and listing is the only option. I was thinking that since I will not be using a sub for music I might be able to at least look at the specs. & maybe get a speakers that have good bass performance. I do realize room treatment can & will make huge difference in the sound but in my case I don't have a dedicated room so there is very little I can do in that regard. You say "educate youself on specs" why bother when the manufacture specs don't mean a thing ?
Gear will be music only, 2 channel integrated amp Marantz PM8006, Marantz CD player, Yamaha streaming thing & turntable, speakers JBL L82 classic or KLH Model 5. Leaning towards the JBL due to front port & seemingly better "subjective" reviews on the bass which seems funny as the JBL's are only a 2 way speaker.
Thanks for your replie

Given the specific speaker models, you can simply search for proper reviews. As it happens, this forum links to both.

KLH Model 5 review and measurements by Erins Audio Corner

Written review isn't online yet, so for now just a screenshot from the video of the spinorama:

www.audiosciencereview.com

JBL L82 Classic: Spinorama and Measurements

It's been a while! I've had the JBL L82 for some time now, and as far as I know, there are no published measurements for it yet. So here I am =] An incomplete post for now. Full suite of measurements and interpretations once I've published my review and formatted all the data, but in the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Given the data there, the L82 is probably the better speaker. Also, it explains why people subjectively like the L82 bass. It has that bookshelf 100hz bump that is sometimes done as a replacement for the relative lack of low bass in a bookshelf. Of course, you can fix the bass on both these speakers with EQ, but you can't fix the poor DI on the KLH with EQ.

In general I would avoid buying any speaker that doesn't have a review with competent measurements. There are more than enough good options at this point.

 

[OldHvyMec]

Well since the advertised specs are worthless getting speakers into a room and listing is the only option. I was thinking that since I will not be using a sub for music I might be able to at least look at the specs. & maybe get a speakers that have good bass performance. I do realize room treatment can & will make huge difference in the sound but in my case I don't have a dedicated room so there is very little I can do in that regard.

There are some manufactures that provide specs on the conservative side. When I say conservative I mean 100% higher wattage ratings because of the way they measure.
Behringer vs Mcintosh. They both provided specs but one is very easy to prove (Mcintosh) and the other Behringer has never been close to the outrageous claims they make.

EX: NU12000 is 6000 watts per channel @ what ohm? It might hit 6000 watts for 1/10th of a second at 1 ohm. The fact is @ 8 ohms it will put out an honest 1500 watts
and close to doubling that at 4ohms.

Mcintosh MC275 is 75 WPC @ 3-24ohms per channel. The real readings from my stock 64 model MC275 is 181 watts per channel in series or paralleled or close to 90 watts per channel.

I don't think manufactures in it for the long haul will get away with unbelievable claims. Like Behringer they are used for what they can do vs what they claim to do.
Because Behringer is not a flash in the pan, specs be damned I guess. I use mine for what they are good at BASS Control and nothing else. We bough a pallet of NU12000 at 400.00 each. I kept 4. I can't break one and have been trying for 5 years now.