Frequency Response Test Records

[stereoplay]

Frequency Response Test Records​

I was wondering how my few test records measure compared to each other and which one is the best for measuring crosstalk.


Used Pickup: Ortofon Vinyl Master Silver (47K//240pF, 17,5mN)
Used Turntable: Mitsubishi LT-20

First I adjusted the pickup exaktly regarding the azimuth and managed it to fix it at about 1° off, which should be enough...

Azimuth:

Let's begin:

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/...Frequenzgang-und-Übersprech-Mess-Schallplatte

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/1410902-CBS-Laboratories-Professional-Test-Record-Issue-3

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/6949651-No-Artist-Audio-Test-Record-

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/5135198-No-Artist-Denon-Technical-Test-Record

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/6616930-No-Artist-Mérőlemez-Test-Record

Clearaudio CA-TRS-1007

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/10320855-No-Artist-Universal-Frequency-Test-Record

DGG 1099 112

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/11516219-Ortofon-Test-Record

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/...on-Audio-Technical-Test-Record-Pick-Up-Test-I

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/...est-Record-Wide-Range-Pickup-Test-10-50000-Hz

JVC TRS-1003

My personal conclusions regarding frequency response and crosstalk test records are:

1.) Best record in the the range of 20...20Khz is https://www.discogs.com/de/release/...Frequenzgang-und-Übersprech-Mess-Schallplatte

2.) Best record in the range up to 50KHz is https://www.discogs.com/de/release/11516219-Ortofon-Test-Record

 

[analogSurviver]

Frequency Response Test Records​

I was wondering how my few test records measure compared to each other and which one is the best for measuring crosstalk.


Used Pickup: Ortofon Vinyl Master Silver (47K//240pF, 17,5mN)
Used Turntable: Mitsubishi LT-20

First I adjusted the pickup exaktly regarding the azimuth and managed it to fix it at about 1° off, which should be enough...

Azimuth:
View attachment 181019


Let's begin:

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/9952570-No-Artist-DIN-45-543-Frequenzgang-und-Übersprech-Mess-Schallplatte
View attachment 181021

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/1410902-CBS-Laboratories-Professional-Test-Record-Issue-3
View attachment 181022

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/6949651-No-Artist-Audio-Test-Record-
View attachment 181023

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/5135198-No-Artist-Denon-Technical-Test-Record
View attachment 181024

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/6616930-No-Artist-Mérőlemez-Test-Record
View attachment 181025

Clearaudio CA-TRS-1007
View attachment 181026

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/10320855-No-Artist-Universal-Frequency-Test-Record
View attachment 181032

DGG 1099 112
View attachment 181035

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/11516219-Ortofon-Test-Record
View attachment 181036

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/...on-Audio-Technical-Test-Record-Pick-Up-Test-I
View attachment 181028

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/...est-Record-Wide-Range-Pickup-Test-10-50000-Hz
View attachment 181030

JVC TRS-1003
View attachment 181031

My personal conclusions regarding frequency response and crosstalk test records are:

1.) Best record in the the range of 20...20Khz is https://www.discogs.com/de/release/9952570-No-Artist-DIN-45-543-Frequenzgang-und-Übersprech-Mess-Schallplatte

2.) Best record in the range up to 50KHz is https://www.discogs.com/de/release/11516219-Ortofon-Test-Record

Commendable to be able to get all of the above test records.

There is one inherent flaw in the above measurements - the choice of the cartridge. For those not familiar with Ortofon Vinyl Master Silver - it is the Ortofon 540 sold in the German market. It might also be 540 MK II.

ortofon markenshop | Ortofon VinylMaster Silver

Ortofon VinylMaster Silver

www.ortofon-elite.de

It is a classic fixed coil cartridge with high inductance - hence vulnerable to electric load and, regardless of any real world load likely to be achieved, not capable of flat frequency much above 20 kHz.

For response past 20 kHz, the easiest to use is a MC cartridge - because its electrical characteristics have electrical resonance/cutoff point way past 20 kHz - unlike typical fixed coil with high inductance, like the Ortofon VM Silver aka 540 - which has electrical resonance within the audio band :

Hagerman Technology LLC: Cartridge Loading

From the graphs in all of the above measurement there is evident rather low channel separation below 1 kHz. In this frequency range, provided the cartridge is reasonable quality ( VM Silver should be - although I do not have personal experience with it ), the separation is mostly governed by the tonearm. It is here where very rigid tonearms, like SME V, show beyond any shadow of a doubt their superiority. The very same cart measured with the very same sample of the test record can have up to 15-20 dB better channel separation ( the lower the frequency, the more pronounced the improvement is ) when mounted to SME V instead to an "average" arm. Please do note I am quoting SME V solely because I have been myself astounded by such difference in measurements back in the day I briefly worked at Benz Micro Switzerland - as the same SME V as back in the day is still used for the listening test of each and every cart produced.
There may be by now arms even better than SME V in this regard - but I no longer have the access to the "plotting/graphs" - and certainly not the Bruel & Kjaer setup still in use at BMS.

The measurements also show one sorely lacking aspect of phonograph record - AZIMUTH. Even the test records are NOT completely 90 degrees/square.

In JAES there is a paper with mathematically arrived at ultimate channel separation of phonograph record by a South American man I am certainly not going to remember his name correctly ... - he arrived at -57,XY dB. The year of this paper is from 1955-1960.
The tolerances in azimuth angle at this level do not measure in (fractions of) a degree; it is fractions of a MINUTE.
I have been able to achieve this figure - equal to or below the noise of the JVC TRS 1007 test record. Using a cherry picked sample of cartridge at the factory - and "honing" it troughout the entire burn/run in process.
Making tiny, minuscule adjustmernts to VTF, VTA, azimuth - until arriving to unmeasurable crosstalk figures.

 

[Deleted member 46664]

I don't know how much help these might be but here is a collection of test tones and sweeps that you are free to copy and use as you wish. I made them in Audacity in MP3/320 format at -10db so they should work almost anyplace.

 

[DVDdoug]

In the vinyl days I never worried about crosstalk. Stereo sounded like stereo and there was plenty of separation.

The "snap", "crackle", and "pop" was a HUGE annoyance. (I could live with slight hiss & hum, but I'm happier to live without it.}

I was always FOOLISHLY chasing after better frequency response (by upgrading my cartridge or wanting to upgrade my cartridge). Foolish because the frequency response on the records varied so much. Plus I had tone controls, and if remember correctly I bought an equalizer before I had a CD player. I assume frequency response on modern records is better but between recording & playback I doubt you can get perfectly-flat response like with digital. (Records can go higher, but CDs are flatter over the audible range.)

And, there was occasional audible distortion. I didn't hear distortion on all records, just some.

 

[stereoplay]

As analogSurviver posted before, the Ortofon Vinyl Master Silver is not the best choice of comparing test records in the upper frequency band.

Now I did some measurements with an AT33 PTG/II Moving Coil Pickup, which is specified up to 50KHz.

Mainly crosstalk differs from record to record. Frequency response is quite similiar, except the Ortofon.

 

[sergeauckland]

My experience with test records is much the same, in that they're pretty unreliable at hf. Back in the days when vinyl was mainstream, we had various laboratory test records, and most specified a maximum of 5 plays (yes, just 5!) for guaranteed performance past 10kHz.

We did our best in setting up the studio disk reproducers, but it wasn't anything as precise as setting up the tape machines.

I still have several test LPs, and they're all different to each other at hf. My Decca SXL2057 only goes up to 12kHz, and it has the same frequencies on each side to increase the useful life. Levels are specified to +-0.5dB and crosstalk to -20dB. In the case of the SXL2057, I don't see any difference between side 1 and side 2, so have reasonable confidence that the LP was well treated. (or abused equally!)

At least the Decca LP is done at 0dB=1cm/sec @ 1kHz. My 'Ultimate Analogue Test LP' has sweeps to 20kHz, but done at -20dB, and it's hard to keep noise down to get reliable (anything close to +-1dB) measurements.

S

 

[RaggaMuffin]

Frequency Response Test Records​

I was wondering how my few test records measure compared to each other and which one is the best for measuring crosstalk.


Used Pickup: Ortofon Vinyl Master Silver (47K//240pF, 17,5mN)
Used Turntable: Mitsubishi LT-20

First I adjusted the pickup exaktly regarding the azimuth and managed it to fix it at about 1° off, which should be enough...

Azimuth:
View attachment 181019


Let's begin:

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/9952570-No-Artist-DIN-45-543-Frequenzgang-und-Übersprech-Mess-Schallplatte
View attachment 181021

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/1410902-CBS-Laboratories-Professional-Test-Record-Issue-3
View attachment 181022

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/6949651-No-Artist-Audio-Test-Record-
View attachment 181023

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/5135198-No-Artist-Denon-Technical-Test-Record
View attachment 181024

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/6616930-No-Artist-Mérőlemez-Test-Record
View attachment 181025

Clearaudio CA-TRS-1007
View attachment 181026

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/10320855-No-Artist-Universal-Frequency-Test-Record
View attachment 181032

DGG 1099 112
View attachment 181035

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/11516219-Ortofon-Test-Record
View attachment 181036

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/...on-Audio-Technical-Test-Record-Pick-Up-Test-I
View attachment 181028

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/...est-Record-Wide-Range-Pickup-Test-10-50000-Hz
View attachment 181030

JVC TRS-1003
View attachment 181031

My personal conclusions regarding frequency response and crosstalk test records are:

1.) Best record in the the range of 20...20Khz is https://www.discogs.com/de/release/9952570-No-Artist-DIN-45-543-Frequenzgang-und-Übersprech-Mess-Schallplatte

2.) Best record in the range up to 50KHz is https://www.discogs.com/de/release/11516219-Ortofon-Test-Record

What software is that you're using? Is it something like Feickert adjust+ or AnalogMagik?

Also, regarding the test records, I saw in this guy's article that several of his test records all had problems with the left channel waveforms on some of the tracks, including the CBS one you used. It could be just his copies, but I did notice on my Hi-Fi Sound test record that the L channel waveforms were a bit off.

 

[stereoplay]

The software is self written. Left channel is a little bit off, because I shifted the curve a little bit. So there is no reason to be worried about.

 

[BadAudioAdvice]

I did some very simple measurements with the Ortofon test record, trying to track down some problems with my Technics SL-1200, and comparing it to a Technics SL-10.

I'm wondering if it was Azimuth or Anti-Skate that is causing the significant difference in channel levels.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...cting-frequency-or-is-it-the-cartridge.33945/

 

[Balle Clorin]

 

[stereoplay]

Gor one more record for frequency measurements:

No Artist - Meßschallplatte Übertragungskurve Übersprechdämpfung

Auf Discogs können Sie sich ansehen, wer an 1983 Vinylvon Meßschallplatte Übertragungskurve Übersprechdämpfung mitgewirkt hat, Rezensionen und Titellisten lesen und auf dem Marktplatz nach der Veröffentlichung suchen.

www.discogs.com

Compared to my "reference":

No Artist - Din 45 543 Frequenzgang- Und Übersprech-Mess-Schallplatte Für 33 1/3 UpM

Auf Discogs können Sie sich ansehen, wer an 1979 Vinylvon Din 45 543 Frequenzgang- Und Übersprech-Mess-Schallplatte Für 33 1/3 UpM mitgewirkt hat, Rezensionen und Titellisten lesen und auf dem Marktplatz nach der Veröffentlichung suchen.

www.discogs.com

 

[stereoplay]

I got another interesting test record:

No Artist - RMS Audio Präsentiert Klangerlebnis Pur ...

Auf Discogs können Sie sich ansehen, wer an Vinylvon RMS Audio Präsentiert Klangerlebnis Pur ... mitgewirkt hat, Rezensionen und Titellisten lesen und auf dem Marktplatz nach der Veröffentlichung suchen.

www.discogs.com

Frequency sweep is only available in mono (lateral):

and as reference again this record in lateral recording:

No Artist - Din 45 543 Frequenzgang- Und Übersprech-Mess-Schallplatte Für 33 1/3 UpM

Auf Discogs können Sie sich ansehen, wer an 1979 Vinylvon Din 45 543 Frequenzgang- Und Übersprech-Mess-Schallplatte Für 33 1/3 UpM mitgewirkt hat, Rezensionen und Titellisten lesen und auf dem Marktplatz nach der Veröffentlichung suchen.

www.discogs.com

I was surprised by the left channel at upper frequencies with the RMS Audio test record, so I made some measurements with different pickups (only left channel is shown, DIN record first):

and with the other record it seems to be a more or less general problem, but also a combination with different styli?:

Maybe someone can explain me my findings?

 

[Balle Clorin]

Two different test records
An old Bruel&Kjær QR2010 5-45 000Hz track. I got the record as from our national broadcasting company, when they got rid of vinyl.

Apologize that I cannor show same scale on axis

96k recording

48k recording Clearaudio TRS-107

Found the 96k recording, clearly my aligment of that cartridge was better than the 48k recording

 

[restorer-john]

The software is self written. Left channel is a little bit off, because I shifted the curve a little bit. So there is no reason to be worried about.

I like your software. Is it available to play with anywhere?

 

[Balle Clorin]

With the present Ortofon test record I get quite different response compared to the Clearaudio TRS-1007
Does anyone else have similar plot for the Ortofon?

 

[Balle Clorin]

I got another interesting test record:

No Artist - RMS Audio Präsentiert Klangerlebnis Pur ...

Auf Discogs können Sie sich ansehen, wer an Vinylvon RMS Audio Präsentiert Klangerlebnis Pur ... mitgewirkt hat, Rezensionen und Titellisten lesen und auf dem Marktplatz nach der Veröffentlichung suchen.

www.discogs.com

Frequency sweep is only available in mono (lateral):

View attachment 229448

and as reference again this record in lateral recording:

No Artist - Din 45 543 Frequenzgang- Und Übersprech-Mess-Schallplatte Für 33 1/3 UpM

Auf Discogs können Sie sich ansehen, wer an 1979 Vinylvon Din 45 543 Frequenzgang- Und Übersprech-Mess-Schallplatte Für 33 1/3 UpM mitgewirkt hat, Rezensionen und Titellisten lesen und auf dem Marktplatz nach der Veröffentlichung suchen.

www.discogs.com

View attachment 229449

I was surprised by the left channel at upper frequencies with the RMS Audio test record, so I made some measurements with different pickups (only left channel is shown, DIN record first):

View attachment 229450

and with the other record it seems to be a more or less general problem, but also a combination with different styli?:

View attachment 229451

Maybe someone can explain me my findings?

I cannot explain it but I see the same thing with my AT33PTG/2 as you
Small frequency oscillations on Clearaudio trs1007 , the are not present on my B&K QR2010, and not visible on any record with ATOC9ML/II

OC9ML/2

Clearaudio TRS1007+AT33PTG/2

Same system in on B&K QR2010

Closeup of oscillations, they seem to be related to 1.8 secons interval -once per revolution-

No problem on QR2009 both channels well balanced

 

[morillon]

the famous "Rumpelmesskoppler"
really interesting to be able to distinguish between what comes from the turntable and the lp tests used
ouhaou..

 

[JP]

Small frequency oscillations on Clearaudio trs1007

They are once per revolution. I see these patterns in plots all the time across many different records and cartridge combinations. Try adjusting your VTA?

 

[Balle Clorin]

They are once per revolution. I see these patterns in plots all the time across many different records and cartridge combinations. Try adjusting your VTA?

Actullally recently I lowered the arm 2mm at the base , and now my cart is much more evenly balanced response in both channels and distortion reduced and similar level. thanks for the tip to use QR2009!! Much happier with my cart now

Spoiler: Lower VTA did not help on CA TRS-1007

I guess the bumps are causing it.. and AT33PTG/II juste recato mor to it then ATOC9ML/II for some reason.

No diffrence in oscillations with out mat and camping ahr and trying outer and inner track

 

[Balle Clorin]

I compared my old well used CBS STR-111 with A NOS unused CBS STR-112 and to my surprice the Intermodulation test track show much more distortion on the 112 than 111. What IMD results does people here get with the STR-112? Vertical modulation 6db for instance

Red STR-111, Magenta STR-112