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Fremer's Turntables Have a Sound Video

I remember this one. One recording has far more noise than the other, one 'table is ~0.33% faster, and there's a marked level difference. Can't setup a DBT for it without time-stretching one track as the discontinuity can't be masked for clips longer than a couple seconds.
 
ReasonableAudiophile said:
Using the same cartridge, arm, and preamp — physically swapped, not two examples of the same model — is the only honest way to isolate the turntable as the variable. Even then, VTA, azimuth, tracking force, overhang alignment — all of that gets disturbed every time you remount. So you're not really hearing turntable A vs. turntable B.
Click to expand...
It is actually more difficult than that.

We were once experimenting to see if demagnetizing an LP would change the sound. Lo and behold, captures before and after showed a clearly difference in sound, subjectively and objectively! Well, it turned out this was due to wear in the LP. A brand new one sounded and measured differently on the first play vs second!!! So the de-mag had nothing to do with it.

The system is too unreliable to perform any proper AB tests on it.
 
amirm said:
It is actually more difficult than that.

A brand new one sounded and measured differently on the first play vs second!!! So the de-mag had nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...
So unless listeners want to avoid buying new vinyl regularly, get a digital grab of it on 1st play, and archive the LP for special occasions.

Maybe people only play vinyl once in a while these days - my collection, before I sold it (many years ago) practically played both sides at the same time! Weirdly, CDs I bought in the 80's sound just like they used to, as do my FLACs :) Where's the fun in that? Someone should develop a kind of filter with memory, so each time a digital tune is played, the sound is progressively degraded a bit more, for that authentic vinyl thrill! :)
 
amirm said:
It is actually more difficult than that.

We were once experimenting to see if demagnetizing an LP would change the sound. Lo and behold, captures before and after showed a clearly difference in sound, subjectively and objectively! Well, it turned out this was due to wear in the LP. A brand new one sounded and measured differently on the first play vs second!!! So the de-mag had nothing to do with it.

The system is too unreliable to perform any proper AB tests on it.
Click to expand...
That is truly fascinating. That definitely proves that an AB test is unreliable as you stated.
 
Redacted said:
So unless listeners want to avoid buying new vinyl regularly, get a digital grab of it on 1st play, and archive the LP for special occasions.

Maybe people only play vinyl once in a while these days - my collection, before I sold it (many years ago) practically played both sides at the same time! Weirdly, CDs I bought in the 80's sound just like they used to, as do my FLACs :) Where's the fun in that? Someone should develop a kind of filter with memory, so each time a digital tune is played, the sound is progressively degraded a bit more, for that authentic vinyl thrill! :)
Click to expand...

Time for this video again….:-)….

This guy tests 100 plays of a record on a cheap turntable and also a high-quality turntable.

He provides the sound file comparisons, as well as as shows the waveforms.

Result:

After 100 plays there is noticeable degradation of they sound played on the cheap turntable.

After 100 plays on the higher quality turntable, the sound difference is negligible from the first to the hundredth play:


This is fairly consistent with my own experience. I’ve got a decent turntable and there are plenty of records. I’ve played a great many times. And I either haven’t noticed a difference or found differences negligible.
 
MattHooper said:
Time for this video again….:-)….

This guy tests 100 plays of a record on a cheap turntable and also a high-quality turntable.

He provides the sound file comparisons, as well as as shows the waveforms.

Result:

After 100 plays there is noticeable degradation of they sound played on the cheap turntable.

After 100 plays on the higher quality turntable, the sound difference is negligible from the first to the hundredth play:


This is fairly consistent with my own experience. I’ve got a decent turntable and there are plenty of records. I’ve played a great many times. And I either haven’t noticed a difference or found differences negligible.
Click to expand...
What about the base vinyl andor pressing differences? Vinyl simply varies in several ways, even if same master.
 
Chrispy said:
What about the base vinyl andor pressing differences? Vinyl simply varies in several ways, even if same master.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure how that is relevant to that test or to the point of the test (?)
 
Dialectic said:
He is, or was, a member of this forum.

@analogplanet, if you are still around, please weigh in. :)
Click to expand...
Fremer was here for a hot, New York—or is it Jersey?—Minute.

I like to think I helped scare him away, but that doesn't seem very nice, does it?
 
amirm said:
It is actually more difficult than that.

We were once experimenting to see if demagnetizing an LP would change the sound. Lo and behold, captures before and after showed a clearly difference in sound, subjectively and objectively! Well, it turned out this was due to wear in the LP. A brand new one sounded and measured differently on the first play vs second!!! So the de-mag had nothing to do with it.

The system is too unreliable to perform any proper AB tests on it.
Click to expand...
One of my abiding recollections of working in the business in the mid 1970s was that B&K frequency sweep test records were discarded after 5 plays.

It does depend on the cartridge and stylus how much damage is caused.
 
Balle Clorin said:
You better the see the video once more ,he tells you explicitly that is is the same of everything except the turntable...

I analyzed the sound files, and the TechDas with vacuum platter is far superior, the other TT gives wow and low level oscillations and intermodulations distortions, since the cartridge jumps around much more. it is quite a good example that proper clamping record to platter makes a difference

The reason for having a RIAA with a sharp subsonic filter is very obvious here, The OMA TT trigger far more low end resonance due to the the lack of record clamping/vacuum. A comparison with a proper clamp would be interesting.the OMA clamp does not have an good effect

1725114313061-png.1052409


www.hifisentralen.no

Balles kladdebok

Denne var nyttig..for RC last av sekundær vikling på MC trafo. https://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=8200 info om Menno Vandeveen MC step up https://mennovanderveen.nl/images/onderzoek-ontwikkeling/publicaties/mc-10-en.pdf
www.hifisentralen.no www.hifisentralen.no
Click to expand...
Shows what a stupidly engineered RIAA stage he uses.
 
Tbf to Fremer I could see a vacuum table sounding different to a standard belt drive depending on the record used and I could see two belt drive tables sounding different based on the speed controllers.
 
amirm said:
We were once experimenting to see if demagnetizing an LP would change the sound. Lo and behold, captures before and after showed a clearly difference in sound, subjectively and objectively! Well, it turned out this was due to wear in the LP. A brand new one sounded and measured differently on the first play vs second!!!
Click to expand...

I have noticed the same, that new vinyl records sound noticeably better on the second play-through than on the first play-through, but after that, they sound the same without any audible change from that point. I'm not sure why that is, but I don't think it's due to wear, in the sense that a vinyl record will wear down that fast. Maybe it's more of a "wear-in" to clear out some micro particles in the grooves, or something similar like that, I don't know? :)
 
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