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Frankly, it's hell to choose an AVR
lessthanjoey
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Do you know anything about their room correction? That's the #1 feature for me, and it seems like something proprietary to Sony. Highly doubt it's going to be competitive with Dirac.
ban25
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There was a user on AVS who posted REW graphs showing that Sony DCAC is basically ineffective. Those receivers are also plagued with reports of hissing. Given all the issues surrounding them, those Sony AVRs are a hard pass in my book.
My T758 has been great these past few years, probably one my most valuable purchases since it gets used daily and I don't find myself tweaking things like I did with my old x2200W. NAD equipment is just going to have bugs and quirks, they are an old school company and don't have the R&D department or budget that conglomerates like D&M and Sony have. Still, I like their philosophy and standards. BluOS is rock solid despite taking a few years to work things out.
Mid-high end AVRs/AVPs are definitely at a weird spot in the market, it feels like everything is priced $1500 higher than it should be for all the beta testing that is done after release. Regardless of the state of things, I'm between upgrading to the x3800H or x4800H this year due to Denon's better handling of Zone 2 and, of course, Dirac.
Mid-high end AVRs/AVPs are definitely at a weird spot in the market, it feels like everything is priced $1500 higher than it should be for all the beta testing that is done after release. Regardless of the state of things, I'm between upgrading to the x3800H or x4800H this year due to Denon's better handling of Zone 2 and, of course, Dirac.
exceptional audio quality based on what, specs, or your subjective measurements?
That tells you little, unless you know how they determine that "500W". Manufacturers don't follow the same standard on "power consumption", some based on 2 channels driven simultaneously at rated output, some include 1/8th rated output on the remaining channels or X number of channels, etc...
Well until they give us something better, the power supply listed on the back is all we have to go by.
Sound and Vision used to provide in their reviews wattage by all channels driven, not just two channels.
A while ago, it reviewed a Integra Receiver that I owned, review did all 7 Channels driven ( something like 120 watts per), the total was under what the Receiver said on the back ( if I remember correctly, think it was around 1000 watts), then they did a Yamaha Receiver I owned ( different time period ), all channels driven was 50 watts for 7, power listed on the back was 450 watts, both receivers was listed over 120 watts per channel in the specs.
Now, the new Integra 8.4 lists the power supply at 1095 watts, the Sony STR-AZ7000ES lists 540 watts, which should I believe has the most headroom, because that is a big difference.
Dobbyisfree
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See my earlier comment:
Frankly, it's hell to choose an AVR
I completely agree. I am having a hard time justifying separates. Today's receivers with DSP/Dirac provide state-of-the-art sound in the simplest package possible. If you have "normal" speakers in a "normal" room, particularly if you use a sub, they all provide plenty of power. Obviously...
audiosciencereview.com
I would not put any value at all on the quoted figures for "power in". Firstly, because they are barely ever comparable. Secondly because, even if they were, they don't equate by a rule to power out and efficiency varies between power amplifiers (especially those of different "class").
If you wish to compare "power out", then many equivalent figures can be found both from manufacturers and from online real world testing results.
In my opinion, until there is more data out there for the Sony model you're looking at, you won't be able to assess the headroom difference.
However, (also in my opinion) I would not base your buying decision particularly focused on the output power of these AVRs, since speaker and room choice can make such a bigger difference per dollar spent to your available headroom.
In this specific example you may be right, but just don't be too sure about that either. I'll give you one more example:
Yamaha RX-A3080
From the owner's manual:
Power consumption.................................490 W
Max power consumption.......................1,210 W
A few years ago, they didn't provide the maximum consumption number but now they do.
Sony, Denon, Marantz, Onkyo only provides one number so we don't know how to compare theirs to Yamaha's, and that's just one example of why we can't really rely on this particular spec, unless you are comparing models from the same brand such as Integra 8.4 vs 7.3, even then, it depends, the 7.3, weigs 36 lbs, THX select certified, claimed to have a massive main transformer so presumably class AB too, yet its power consumption is only 310 W, vs the 8.4's 1095 W. So, how do we reconcile the big difference between the two, other than the 8.4 has two more channels of power amplifiers, unless of course, if the 7.3 uses class D amp modules.
By the way, I compiled an AVR power output based on Sound and Vision bench tests (since you mentioned that) comparisons, and the B&K did not make it to my list.
Below are the top 30s in my list, no B&Ks, I guess S&V has not bench tested their AVRs for some reasons.
Of the top 30s, 6 were from Onkyo and Integra, 7 from Denon, but there's one from Sony, the ZA5000 ES.
The Sony ZA5000 ES's power consumption spec is 500 W, the 7 channel driven output measured by S&V that you mentioned, was 117.2 W, so again, don't pay too much attention to the power consumption specs as they may represent what you think they represent.
I have research this spec to the nth degree, including reading tons of owner's manuals, service manuals, bench tests; and failed to come up with even an educated guess on how each of them based those specs on.
There is at least one nice surprise though, thanks to Audioholics who recently contacted D+M for their comments, and we now know a little more about Denon and Marantz's:
Receiver Power Consumption Rating vs Output Power Is Not Watt You Think!
Ever wonder how your favorite manufacturer rates power consumption on their AV receivers and how it relates to maximum available output power to your speakers? The answer may surprise you so read on.
tesseractASR
Member
I have an X3800H from Crutchfield and X4800H from AC4L. One of them has to go back and I'm not sure which one. I like having the new 3800 packaging vs. refurbished. I like the extra features and Japanese-build of the 4800 and am leaning toward keeping it. Not sure the monolithic amps are worth it. The price spread is only $500.
It doesn't help that Arcam and Onkyo are now releasing their 2023 models. I'll stick with Denon in hopes of Dirac ART becoming available.
It doesn't help that Arcam and Onkyo are now releasing their 2023 models. I'll stick with Denon in hopes of Dirac ART becoming available.
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ART may be the magic bullet for some people but I doubt it will make much difference to most people wven if it works well. There is a point of diminishing return, DLBC may be that point, for me anyway.
tesseractASR
Member
Yes, the DLBC is likely to be more useful. I prefer to use mains that either have excellent off-axis response or limited (dipole) response, so ART benefits might be limited.
tesseractASR
Member
Checking out the Onkyo RZ70... it weighs in at 48 lbs!!! I really like the setup ease of Denon, though and Onkyo is on shaky ground.
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what are you hoping to achieve? Are you trying to compare it to the two Denon AVRs you own?
tesseractASR
Member
Guess I'm just lamenting the loss of "affordable" heavy-duty receivers. I'm just coming from the beefy Sherwood/Newcastle R972, which is only being swapped out because it won't talk nice to my new 4k panel. Also, I'd like to box it up and archive it while it's still in great shape and working.
As an aside, I attended a blind speaker shootout a couple of days ago and a Trinnov rep was there. I pleaded for another Trinnov-enabled AVR and got the scoop why that's not likely to happen soon. Trinnov invested in that venture with an eye toward the long term. Sherwood abruptly, without warning, exited the North American market. Trinnov was out their investment and I was left holding the bag on an AVR with a warranty that would not have been honored if I needed it. Anyway, no Trinnov AVRs on the near horizon.
I have similar preferences - and have seen very little analysis on how differing dispersion profiles affect ART
Although right now, with frequency limitation to below 150Hz - we are sticking with the omnidirectional frequencies....
This may only be an issue as later ART iterations start to move up into the midrange.
I didn't find the Integra DRX 3.4 difficult to set up...
I am not convinced that the differences in ease of setup are as substantial as some claim them to be.
Yep, nothing beefy out there in the mass / mainstream price brackets.
Closest to it is the Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer RZ70/8.4/LX805 - although Denon might join that market segment with an X6800.... maybe... chances are that the X6800 will be more expensive.
Latest marketing blurb was from Pioneer claiming that they were taking their prices back to pre-Covid levels... 2019.
Whether that really happens is yet to be seen. (also of personal interest to me, is whether the Australian pricing follows the same trend.... often in AU prices are double the US$ prices.... )
On the other hand - I purchased an Integra 3.4 at a very good price, and paired it with my 440W Crown amps... end result is far more economical than an RZ70 while providing far more power where it is most needed.
But yes, with a replacement for my old Onkyo SR876, I would probably step down to an AVR only setup, for the sheer simplicity of it, and retire the power amp. (don't need that much power!)
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I hear you. I suppose you could go the route of a great processor and beefy amps as needed. But it really gets expensive fast to do it right.
tesseractASR
Member
I have a couple of hundred pounds of Emotiva prepro/2 channel/3 channel/Dayton sub amp that powers a 600 lb. 5.2 speaker system with JTR L/R mains, in storage. Moved for work, brought a 2.2 system with me, now building an apartment setup, so I won't need more power. Feeling the frustration of the OP, trying to sort out an AVR.
Honestly, I'm fine with any decent AVR that has at least Audyssey XT32/MultEQ app in 2.1, for now. It sounds really good in this medium-sized room. But the features of the X4800H make it a great candidate for a future prepro/separate amps system, which it'll probably be used for, someday.
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