Fosi v3 Mono - User Impressions | Owner's Thread

[antcollinet]

Hope you don't mind me asking for some explainination, genuinely willing to learn.

Science is a process used to generate knowledge and understanding of the physical world. (The scientific method)

Engineering is the application of that knowledge and understanding towards making stuff work.

Sometimes engineering results in new scientific investigation - as a result of the "holy hell what happened then?" events.

(very briefly stated)

 

[SMen]

Here is another video by Amir regarding the listening process

Where I get a little bit frustrated is with scientists or engineers who do not listen ;-) but watch the video before replying ...

There is group think everywhere, so I would prefer to refer someone to this video (say they are thinking of experimenting with op amps having just been told by the manufacturer they should try them) - and judge for themselves, rather than just tell them "they can't hear this" or "that is nonsense".

Please note I have not promoted anything but the approach here...

 

[antcollinet]

and judge for themselves, rather than just tell them "they can't hear this" or "that is nonsense".

which is a relevant thing to do when the measurements show that there is a difference that might be heard and you want to understand if they actually can be (or if you can) - or for those who don't understand what the measurements can tell them, and want to find out for themselves. But then the only valid way is blind as outlined in the video.

For those that do understand what the measurements can provide, AND where those measurements show the differences are below the level of human hearing - then no listening is necessary. In fact they are a waste of effort and time.

 

[SMen]

which is a relevant thing to do when the measurements show that there is a difference that might be heard and you want to understand if they actually can be (or if you can) - or for those who don't understand what the measurements can tell them, and want to find out for themselves. But then the only valid way is blind as outlined in the video.

For those that do understand what the measurements can provide, AND where those measurements show the differences are below the level of human hearing - then no listening is necessary. In fact they are a waste of effort and time.

This is where I disagree. Give your opinion, but let them discover for themselves by encouraging a method which challenges all the subjective approaches out there, which are indeed so often damaging, and result in wasted time and money. Just saying "don't bother because you can't hear" is not exactly going to encourage a semblance of method.

Talking to people as if they do understand what you understand is not encouraging good methods, is my point.

 

[GGroch]

Just saying don't bother is not exactly going to encourage a semblance of method.

Good point. But very few subjective listeners who are encouraged to make a blind test will actually do it as the tests are often expensive and difficult. With Op amps, this would normally require purchase of a 2nd identical amp.

However, the Fosi V3 Mono presents a unique opportunity to blind test for free with minimal hassle. Assuming purchase of a stereo pair you could easily set up a monaural blind test with one amp using the original op amps and one the free "upgrade" op amps.

I think this could be accomplished without an added switcher with a mono source if you were just careful to turn the 1st amp off before you turned the 2nd on. It would be an interesting experiment, though I am skeptical that self reported results would be accurate.

 

[SMen]

Good point. But very few subjective listeners who are encouraged to make a blind test will actually do it as the tests are often expensive and difficult. With Op amps, this would normally require purchase of a 2nd identical amp.

However, the Fosi V3 Mono presents a unique opportunity to blind test for free with minimal hassle. Assuming purchase of a stereo pair you could easily set up a monaural blind test with one amp using the original op amps and one the free "upgrade" op amps.

I think this could be accomplished without an added switcher with a mono source if you were just careful to turn the 1st amp off before you turned the 2nd on. It would be an interesting experiment, though I am skeptical that self reported results would be accurate.

I completely agree with your "However" and wrote as much earlier.
And your skepticism. I am a skeptic with myself!

 

[antcollinet]

Just saying "don't bother because you can't hear"

I'm not - I'm answering your frustration in this statement

Where I get a little bit frustrated is with scientists or engineers who do not listen

about why objectivists don't listen. As I said above - for those that don't have that understanding, then a blind test is a valid thing to do:

which is a relevant thing to do when the measurements show that there is a difference that might be heard and you want to understand if they actually can be (or if you can) - or for those who don't understand what the measurements can tell them, and want to find out for themselves. But then the only valid way is blind as outlined in the video.

 

[SMen]

about why objectivists DON'T listen. As I said above - for those that don't have that understanding, then a blind test is a valid thing to do:

about why objectivists DON'T listen. As I said above - for those that don't have that understanding, then a blind test is a valid thing to do:



which is a relevant thing to do when the measurements show that there is a difference that might be heard and you want to understand if they actually can be (or if you can) - or for those who don't understand what the measurements can tell them, and want to find out for themselves. But then the only valid way is blind as outlined in the video.

Yes it's Okay I got that. We agree but don't forget your first point

I'm having lots of fun revisiting moving magnet cartridges, cable capacitance, impedance, thermal noise! I'm not an expert, but I do have an inquiring mind. They seem to break rules, or need different solutions in the world of digital devices connecting with each other.

 

[Guddu]

Let me ask this question to everyone, whoever is happily and willing like to tell:
- Have you found in release notes of an opamp described those special clues by the opamp manufacturer - air, darkness, etc etc (sorry, can’t think of those words at the moment, but you know what I mean).

They all just mention the technical aspects, example:

 

[antcollinet]

Let me ask this question to everyone, who is happily willing to tell:
- Have you found in release notes of an opamp described those special clues by the opamp manufacturer - air, darkness, etc etc (sorry, can’t think of those words at the moment, but you know what I mean).

They all just mention the technical aspects, example:

View attachment 376119

Of course not. They don't exist technically.

EDIT: or at least you’d have to come up with a technical definition of the terms first.

 

[SMen]

Let me ask this question to everyone, whoever is happily and willing like to tell:
- Have you found in release notes of an opamp described those special clues by the opamp manufacturer - air, darkness, etc etc (sorry, can’t think of those words at the moment, but you know what I mean).

They all just mention the technical aspects, example:

View attachment 376119

Personally, when I have looked at different op amps to compare for my understanding, I've been struck by the technical variations (as in that they can vary substantially).
They do suggest in your image advanced circuitry, layout, material etc. at a micro - level.

But I am only pointing out what I am reading in your image.

The subjective things you mention, indeed not.

But fundamentally this whole debate that flares up here repeatedly needs I think at least, the listening discipline so many of us have been alluding to in this thread from different perspectives. And the context of the components' use case. Apart from enjoying them, I am hoping to use the monos to dispel any illusions in this use case. Satisfy myself: no audible difference as I indeed expect (as pointed out by @GGroch )

 

[SMen]

Something I am wondering about looking at the circuit board picture of the v3 monos ...

The op amps seem to be laid out in sequence (take a look at the board pictures), but my understanding is that they are in fact operating in parallel. It is just a board layout thing.

if there is anyone knowledgeable out there who can comment please do ...

 

[Guddu]

They do suggest in your image advanced circuitry, layout, material etc. at a micro - level.

But I am only pointing out what I am reading in your image.

True, but this is something could be said about any electronic component.
Manufacturer saying extremely advanced, supersonic, nano, micro, pico, etc. anything doesn’t mean much more than selling BS.
We all know almost every TPA3255 amplifier is advertised as 300watts per channel advanced cooling gimmick, has anyone of those stand anywhere near reality in proper measurement tests?
My point here is that manufacturers aren’t even using those glorified heavenly sound describing keywords on their sales pages.

But fundamentally this whole debate that flares up here repeatedly needs I think at least, the listening discipline so many of us have been alluding to in this thread from different perspectives. And the context of the components' use case. Apart from enjoying them, I am hoping to use the monos to dispel any illusions in this use case. Satisfy myself: no audible difference as I indeed expect (as pointed out by @GGroch )

I also want to say that I am not against any type of testing, doesn’t matter if I believe in it or not, simply to respect everyone and their opinions.
But this opamp thingy has become never ending debate, and I know it doesn’t matter if I do but I do request to everyone to avoid expressing aggression if you don’t agree with opinion.

 

[GoDawgs]

I do request to everyone to avoid expressing aggression if you don’t agree with opinion.

Are you telling me how to act! (just being a smart ass)

 

[Guddu]

Are you telling me how to act! (just being a smart ass)

Lol…. Trying a user impression thread not to be converted into opamp war zone

 

[GGroch]

Let me ask this question to everyone, whoever is happily and willing like to tell:
- Have you found in release notes of an opamp described those special clues by the opamp manufacturer - air, darkness, etc etc (sorry, can’t think of those words at the moment, but you know what I mean).

Burson is an exception...they do use audio terms...and even provide a graph for transparency, details, color & texture, dynamics and soundstage.
See their site and scroll for the graph.

Just like "audiophile" cables, Burson Op-Amps are developed and marketed specifically to the audiophile after-market. I do not know if there are actually any sound differences between the Burson Models, or between Burson and mainstream Op-Amps. But there could be.

If Burson purposely designs their products to be less accurate, and therefore emphasize certain frequencies or with certain enjoyable distortions they could sound different.

Alternatively, just providing a compelling technology story...which Burson does (they spent good money on their ad-men) should ensure customers hear a difference in sighted testing.

 

[Negatywny]

This is the funniest shit i've seen this year

 

[Guddu]

This is the funniest shit i've seen this year

View attachment 376153

I bet the most expensive one has most of these qualities

By the way, where did you find it?

 

[Negatywny]

As GGroch said: "See their site and scroll for the graph"

 

[Guddu]

As GGroch said: "See their site and scroll for the graph"

I see, Burson.