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Fosi T20X MKII - Beautiful build with terrible audio

Hottuning

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Aug 1, 2025
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This is my first thread on this forum. To provide a little background so readers understand my benchmark, my main system is a Sony CMT-EP313 paired with a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze 50 speakers, which provide an extremely pleasant experiência.

That said, my goal with the T20X MKII was to have a system that at least matched the sound quality, but with a bit more power. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case, at least not in terms of sound quality.

The build quality, on the outside, is excellent. The aluminum cabinet is very well finished, with aluminum knobs that control bass and treble potentiometers that provide tactile feedback where the amplifier should be "flat." The rear panel connectors are of good quality. Okay, cosmetics discussed, let's get to the point: the sound.

When used with monitor audio speakers, the flat knob position doesn't produce a flat sound. In fact, far from it. The resulting sound is devoid of bass and treble, leaving a slightly shrill mid-high. By increasing the gain for bass and treble, the result is an acceptable sound for songs with few instruments. Jazz, classical, and bossa nova perform "audibly," albeit with sibilant female vocals, something I detest. The real problem is when songs with many instruments and a lot of mid-bass are played. It seems like the pre-amplification circuit is saturating, and this frequency range becomes muddled and unclear. In other words, it doesn't matter if you can compensate for the frequency deficiencies in the amplifier's interaction with your speakers. If you listen to something a little more complex, you'll hear male vocals, drum tones, and everything in that frequency spectrum, as if it were coming from a low-bitrate MP3 file.

I believe these problems are due to the tubes used in the project. There are reports in YouTube videos that, if RCA or GE 6AG5 tubes were used, the resulting sound would be much clearer and more defined. But before I even considered this possibility, after less than 24 hours of use, one of the tubes simply stopped lighting up. When I tried to remove it from the socket, with all due care, it broke. I may have been unlucky with this tube, and the reported problems are highly likely attributed to it. In any case, I ordered a pair of RCA 6AG5s in the hopes of achieving decent audio.
After the tube broke, I opened the case to thoroughly clean it. What I found worried me a bit. The main capacitors and most of the others are from an unknown brand called MJIE. The others are good-quality ELNA. The rest of the construction seemed excellent, with no poor soldering or residual solder flux. In any case, it seems to me that the questionable capacitors don't fit a design that's light years from hi-fi.
 

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Update: After less than 24 hours of use, one of the tubes simply died. I believe this tube had some kind of factory issue. I bought two RCA 6AG5 tubes (the seller unfortunately sent me an RCA and a Tungsol of the "same model"), and even with this bizarre tube mix, the equipment worked as expected, albeit with a slight increase in gain on the RCA-amplified channel, which I was able to correct by adjusting the balance of my DAC. I'm waiting for the seller to send me another tube, this time from RCA, to solve the problem once and for all. In any case, the terrible sound was apparently due to the rogue Russian tubes.
 
Tubes have been obsolete for half a century! :P

It's not hard to make a good tube amp but it's more expensive than solid state. Tube power amps are even more difficult and expensive because they need an audio output transformer to drive speakers. (The Fosi isn't using tubes in the output stage.)

The Fosi Website says:
Vacuum Tubes: T20X is equipped with JAN 5654W Vacuum Tubes to get more warm sound. Applicable vacuum tubes model: 6K4/6J1/6A2/6J4/GE5654/6AK5/66*In vacuum tubes, etc. You can replace the vacuum tubes to DIY your stereo system. Different tube with different sound.
IMO - That's an indication of a bad design. It should stay in-spec as long as the tubes are in-spec. They do eventually age, go out-of-spec, or die, but that should be several years. Transistors and MOSFETs have tolerances too but as long as they are in-spec the amplifier (etc.) will meet it's specs.

Personally, I'd rather have imperfect tone controls than no tone controls but ideally there should be a flat-bypass switch.
 
Tubes have been obsolete for half a century! :P

It's not hard to make a good tube amp but it's more expensive than solid state. Tube power amps are even more difficult and expensive because they need an audio output transformer to drive speakers. (The Fosi isn't using tubes in the output stage.)

The Fosi Website says:

IMO - That's an indication of a bad design. It should stay in-spec as long as the tubes are in-spec. They do eventually age, go out-of-spec, or die, but that should be several years. Transistors and MOSFETs have tolerances too but as long as they are in-spec the amplifier (etc.) will meet it's specs.

Personally, I'd rather have imperfect tone controls than no tone controls but ideally there should be a flat-bypass switch.
Well, let's get to it... Yes, vacuum tubes are no longer used for practical reasons, such as power consumption, component fragility, space they take up, and heat generated, and not because they're poor at amplifying signals effectively. Undeniably, transistors solve all the aforementioned problems, with very good sound quality. So good that for most people, the difference between using a tube amplifier or preamp circuit versus a transistorized one is inaudible. What I can say based on what I'm experiencing in this non-ideal scenario, where tubes (from different manufacturers) serve only as preamps, is that the bass and midrange quality is noticeable compared to the transistorized ones I've seen. It's nothing extraordinary, but the difference is there. Regarding treble and bass control, with the tube replacement, the design sounds like a real one. I don't think the design is particularly poorly designed, especially since, in the current scenario, I'm getting better audio than the Sony. I believe that with both valves from the same manufacturer, the sound should be even better. Oh yeah, just one more detail. The T20X MKII doesn't use 5654w tubes. Those are used in the first-generation T20X. The MKII uses Russian 6Z2P tubes
 
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the bass and midrange quality is noticeable compared to the transistorized ones
I don't think you'll find many at ASR that will agree with you on that. They only add distortion and if that is something you want, it should be on the recording to begin with.

 
I don't think you'll find many at ASR that will agree with you on that. They only add distortion and if that is something you want, it should be on the recording to begin with.

Maybe we're not talking about the same thing here. Maybe using that damn Google Translate is distorting what I'd really like to express. Let me explain my point more clearly: Tubes aren't bad equipment when it comes to amplifying a circuit. Yes, they add distortion. Yes, transistors also add distortion. And note, I have no preference between one or the other. My question here is between my Sony and this little Fosi. In this scenario, what I've noticed is that the Fosi, with its new tubes, performs as well (or even better) than the Sony, which is purely transistorized. Studies have already been conducted with blind tests between transistorized and tube amplifiers, and no one has reached a conclusion as to which is better from an audible standpoint. Understand, what you see on an oscilloscope is one thing. Quite another is what my ear, my sensory cells, and, ultimately, my brain like to hear. Which is certainly different, to a greater or lesser extent, from what you like to hear. If tubes are so problematic, McIntosh should stop using them, for example. Ultimately, what matters is the pleasure you get from listening to your favorite music. Whether you used tubes or transistors for that is just a minor detail. I'm only focusing on the tubes in this device because, ultimately, they were destroying the sound it produced, just as they changed everything from water to wine when they were replaced. Again, I'm not a fan of tubes. I like listening to music.
 
Studies have already been conducted with blind tests between transistorized and tube amplifiers, and no one has reached a conclusion as to which is better from an audible standpoint.
Do you have a link to these studies?

 
The tube is just a buffer somewhere in the middle of the audio path .. so the analog path = op-amps -> cathode follower -> another op-amp buffer because of the high output resistance of the tube buffer -> class-D output stage.
All amplification (including the tone control) is done with solid state. The output stage is even a simple switching amplifier circuit.
 
T20s releases are constantly present in Fosi's commercial offer.
Almost old looking and just too cheap-feeling, but these little things are tough as bricks.
Got one of the early batch in 2019, and it still kick its 15/20 wpc without any hassle.
Have fun with this nice toy! ;)
 
The Fosi t20 certainly can't be called a hi-fi amplifier, but I bought one for my father, a tube enthusiast, out of nostalgia, along with two small speakers with 4-inch woofers. This little setup has been working for about 4 years and is surprisingly pleasant to listen to on his desk.
 
O tubo é apenas um buffer em algum lugar no meio do caminho de áudio .. portanto, o caminho analógico = amplificadores operacionais -> seguidor de cátodo -> outro buffer de amplificador operacional devido à alta resistência de saída do buffer valvulado -> estágio de saída classe D.
Toda a amplificação (incluindo o controle de tom) é feita com estado sólido. O estágio de saída é até mesmo um simples circuito amplificador de comutação.

Totalmente consciente!
 
Os lançamentos do T20 estão constantemente presentes na oferta comercial da Fosi.
Quase velho e muito barato, mas essas pequenas coisas são duras como tijolos.
Recebi um dos primeiros lotes em 2019 e ainda chuta seu 15/20 wpc sem problemas.
Divirta-se com este belo brinquedo! ;)
Apenas um lembrete de que este não é o T20X original. Este é o MKII, que não tem nenhuma semelhança com a primeira geração.
 
Você tem um link para esses estudos?

 
Você tem um link para esses estudos?

Mesmo que não houvesse estudos de teste cegos, a lógica é simples de entender. Você não precisa ser um audiófilo com anos de experiência para entender o que acontece com válvulas e transistores. Um pouco de estudo já resolve o problema. Basicamente, fora da zona de distorção, tubos e transistores entregam essencialmente a mesma coisa. Esses testes foram realizados precisamente nesse contexto. Quando tubos e transistores se distorcem, há uma diferença substancial. Os transistores distorcem ao realçar harmônicos estranhos, que não acompanham a nota principal que está sendo tocada, o que nos faz perceber essa distorção como "feia". Os tubos, por outro lado, quando saturados, distorcem ao realçar harmônicos uniformes, que são interpretados pelo nosso cérebro como um complemento à nota que está sendo tocada, o que nos faz perceber o som como "mais rico". Nos híbridos, a distorção "feia" ocorre no circuito de amplificação, que é transistorizado. No entanto, o circuito de pré-amplificação é valvulado e se comportará de acordo com as características da válvula utilizada, assim como um amplificador operacional digital.

Meu "azar" em receber duas válvulas diferentes do mesmo modelo (um Tung-Sol e um RCA) me permitiu comparar as diferenças no circuito de pré-amplificação, e elas são MUITO significativas. A quantidade de amplificação do canal, o equilíbrio de graves, médios e agudos e a clareza de todos eles variam significativamente dependendo do tubo. Portanto, posso concluir que, quando se trata de amplificação (válvulas no circuito de potência), se tivermos o mesmo circuito de pré-amplificação em um amplificador de estado sólido, obteremos exatamente o mesmo som de ambos, desde que ambos estejam fora da faixa de distorção. Quando se trata de pré-amplificação, no entanto, cada tubo dará "seu próprio toque" ao sinal, e isso definitivamente abre um mundo de possibilidades. "Ah, mas os amplificadores devem ser planos para que o resultado final seja o mais fiel possível." Isso não é exatamente verdade, já que no final da linha, nossos alto-falantes nunca são exatamente os mesmos, e o nivelamento desejado raramente é o que realmente ouvimos. Por fim, voltamos ao argumento inicial. O que realmente importa é o quão agradável suas músicas favoritas soam aos seus ouvidos. O resto é pura masturbação mental.
 
Totalmente consciente!

Welcome to ASR!

Post here to be in English. Please review your most recent posts and repost them in English please!
 
Welcome to ASR!

Post here to be in English. Please review your most recent posts and repost them in English please!
I apologize for the error. I translate the page into my language, and this automatically translated what I wrote into Portuguese. I hadn't noticed until your post. Here are the posts in order, in English.

1 - Totally Conscious!

2 - Just a reminder that this is not the original T20X. This is the MKII, which bears no resemblance to the first generation.

3 - Even if there weren't blind test studies, the logic is simple to understand. You don't need to be an audiophile with years of experience to understand what happens with tubes and transistors. A little study already solves the problem. Basically, outside the distortion zone, tubes and transistors deliver essentially the same thing. These tests were conducted precisely in this context. When tubes and transistors distort, there is a substantial difference. Transistors distort by enhancing extraneous harmonics that don't accompany the main note being played, which makes us perceive this distortion as "ugly." Tubes, on the other hand, when saturated, distort by enhancing uniform harmonics, which are interpreted by our brain as complementing the note being played, making us perceive the sound as "richer." In hybrids, the "ugly" distortion occurs in the amplification circuit, which is transistorized. However, the pre-amplification circuit is valved and will behave according to the characteristics of the valve used, just like a digital operational amplifier.

My "misfortune" of receiving two different tubes of the same model (a Tung-Sol and an RCA) allowed me to compare the differences in the preamp circuitry, and they are VERY significant. The amount of channel boost, the balance of bass, midrange, and treble, and the clarity of all of these vary significantly depending on the tube. Therefore, I can conclude that when it comes to amplification (tubes in the power circuit), if we have the same preamp circuitry in a solid-state amplifier, we will get exactly the same sound from both, as long as both are outside the distortion range. When it comes to preamp, however, each tube will give "its own touch" to the signal, and this definitely opens up a world of possibilities. "Ah, but amplifiers must be flat for the final result to be as faithful as possible." This isn't exactly true, since at the end of the line, our speakers are never exactly the same, and the desired leveling is rarely what we actually hear. Ultimately, we return to the initial argument. What really matters is how pleasant your favorite songs sound to your ears. Everything else is pure mental masturbation.
 
if we have the same preamp circuitry in a solid-state amplifier, we will get exactly the same sound from both, as long as both are outside the distortion range. When it comes to preamp, however, each tube will give "its own touch" to the signal, and this definitely opens up a world of possibilities
As part of my degree course we covered tubes and designing circuits for them. The variation between two tubes of the same type and especially between and old and new tube is fully understood by electronic engineers. We were trained to take this into account and design circuits which would still operate properly if different manufacturer's tubes were used.

Any circuit is very badly designed if it works differently when you swap a tube with the same part number and that is not beyond its operational lifetime.
 
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