FOSI S3 Balanced Streamer Review

[morillon]

Bunch more tests added to the review. Results are pretty positive!

While the DAC outputs seem similar " range" to the Wiim Plus and Ultra, at least the analog input isn't as very weak as the Wiim's... a good thing... (For those who want to take it a step further, there's the option of adding a small PocketADC from MiniDSP to the TOSLINK input.)


(Why not just apply the same observations to the DAC output but in unbalanced mode... which is relevant to the vast majority of users of this type of consumer device? by simply not ignoring that it will be just a little better in balanced mode in mesureaments, as is generally observed...)

 

[amirm]

(Why not just apply the same observations to the DAC output but in unbalanced mode... which is relevant to the vast majority of users of this type of consumer device?)

Your tone is getting tiring. Consider being polite and asking properly for things.

Anyway, it is there now.

 

[morillon]

Your tone is getting tiring. Consider being polite and asking properly for things.

Anyway, it is there now.

I don't think I'm being impolite... but yes, my point was a bit insistent...

It's just that, even for the future, the idea of highlighting all the unbalanced measurements in cases like this, and then supplementing them with some balanced observations, seems more sensible to me. And not the other way around.

The thing itself, the idea, can be discussed, can't it?
a "general" reflection..’
and facilitates comparisons... practically all machines being at least unbalanced... not balanced
;-)

But it's a very good thing to have enriched it like this...!

 

[Power Pop 23]

I don't think I'm being impolite... but yes, my point was a bit insistent...

It's just that, even for the future, the idea of highlighting all the unbalanced measurements in cases like this, and then supplementing them with some balanced observations, seems more sensible to me. And not the other way around.

The thing itself, the idea, can be discussed, can't it?
a "general" reflection..’
and facilitates comparisons... practically all machines being at least unbalanced... not balanced
;-)

No disagreement with the requests for more testing to be done

The 'tone' when making the request could be made to seem more friendly.

 

[morillon]

No disagreement with the requests for more testing to be done

The 'tone' when making the request could be made to seem more friendly.

My insistence might come across as impolite... perhaps... just technical questions, after all...

But my tone isn't really impolite... just an automatic translation by Google...

I look like an idiot, a fool... but anyway... the review has been significantly improved... so...
(I just hope that Wiim will make correct analog inputs ,or headphone output , in the future)

 

[amper42]

Bunch more tests added to the review. Results are pretty positive!

It would be very helpful for the review to include:
1. Details on whether UPnP/DLNA playback is functional? Does it limit the amount of tracks shown and playable? Is it usable or would it be considered broken by most NAS users? That's a basic requirement for any steamer. If not, it doesn't matter if it has XLR, should basic UPnP fail to display tracks.

2. Does the same track flaw show up with Qobuz over UPnP or Direct? Tidal or other streaming service? The buyer should know in advance what the streaming limitations are. Roon is estimated to have less than 0.1% of the global audio user market. So, listing widely adopted services that are supported versus those not supported would be very helpful: Apple Music, Amazon, Tidal, Qobuz etc.

3. One last test for the streamer class (especially China based) is Privacy: how often does it phone home with user data? What information do they collect? Where is it phoning back to? How often? Privacy in this class of gear can be especially poor and in some cases actually dangerous to user's data privacy health. One Amazon user reports S3 needs login access to his wifi network or else remote doesn't work? AND... install app on phone is required. Can the unit work without giving it your wifi password and location? Can it be used with just a local network?

Without basic streaming compatibility/privacy disclosure included in the review the S3 could end up being a "Frequently returned item" on Amazon while receiving a glowing ASR review?

 

[OrangeWalrus]

It would be very helpful for the review to include:
1. Details on whether UPnP/DLNA playback is functional? Does it limit the amount of tracks shown and playable? Is it usable or would it be considered broken by most NAS users? That's a basic requirement for any steamer. If not, it doesn't matter if it has XLR, should basic UPnP fail to display tracks.

I think there is an intermittent bug using the Fosi app for UPnP. After going through a day with list scrolling limited to 31, the problem seems to have mysteriously disappeared after an extended listening session, even the next day. Weird. (Problem "healed" by caching?)

While trying to isolate the problem in the Fosi app, I've been using the BubbleUPnP app and have had no problems seeing the S3 unit and directing files to it, so clearly UPnP works at the S3 unit level and the problem is with the phone app.

 

[aagstn]

I think there is an intermittent bug using the Fosi app for UPnP. After going through a day with list scrolling limited to 31, the problem seems to have mysteriously disappeared after an extended listening session, even the next day. Weird. (Problem "healed" by caching?)

While trying to isolate the problem in the Fosi app, I've been using the BubbleUPnP app and have had no problems seeing the S3 unit and directing files to it, so clearly UPnP works at the S3 unit level and the problem is with the phone app.

Software is the place I expected this device to struggle out of the gate. Wiim had many issues that took time to work out. UPnP is my primary way of streaming so I would definitely give this device a pass until all of those issues are worked out. I have no doubt this device will continue to improve in functionality as time goes on. My other gripe with these devices is the focus on just phone apps. Wiim has barely improved their Mac app over the years. This is my preferred way to select music. It is still very much a beta app that works poorly compared to the phone apps.

 

[TheLavenderBaron]

I don't think I'm being impolite... but yes, my point was a bit insistent...

It's just that, even for the future, the idea of highlighting all the unbalanced measurements in cases like this, and then supplementing them with some balanced observations, seems more sensible to me. And not the other way around.

The thing itself, the idea, can be discussed, can't it?
a "general" reflection..’
and facilitates comparisons... practically all machines being at least unbalanced... not balanced
;-)

But it's a very good thing to have enriched it like this...!

Forget about your many, many borderline incoherent and complaint-filled posts that proceeded this one. It's very impolite to devalidate the POV of the person you were impolite to (Amir). Instead of "I'm sorry you feel that way", or "I see. It sounds like you're saying", you self-centrically reject his claim completely "I don't think I'm being impolite."

That's rude and dismissive.

 

[OrangeWalrus]

My other gripe with these devices is the focus on just phone apps. Wiim has barely improved their Mac app over the years. This is my preferred way to select music. It is still very much a beta app that works poorly compared to the phone apps.

I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for, but it is possible to access the unit via a web interface. You just type in the local IP address of the S3 and it appears that you can do anything on the web interface that you could do on the phone app.

That said, obviously the immaturity of the software shows through no matter which interface you use. Buying an S3 means signing up to be a beta tester right now. Some will find that fun, but probably not most.

 

[BrooklynNick]

The typical ROON hubris, 6-12 months of testing it’s not a space probe for billions of dollars? I call BS on that . I’ve seen it before the ROON test phase is very long for unfathomable reasons.

It is not six months of testing. It is a queue of products waiting to be tested. The actual testing takes a few weeks: https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/roon-ready

 

[morillon]

Forget about your many, many borderline incoherent and complaint-filled posts that proceeded this one. It's very impolite to devalidate the POV of the person you were impolite to (Amir). Instead of "I'm sorry you feel that way", or "I see. It sounds like you're saying", you self-centrically reject his claim completely "I don't think I'm being impolite."

That's rude and dismissive.

The review was just very minimalist compared to usual, and quite focused on the balanced aspect...
It was all quite simple in the end...
Not acknowledging that and letting me dig myself deeper into the thread, fully understanding that my expression, written via autotranslation, is indeed rather... inelegant...

I did it just to move things along... even if it makes me look like an idiot...
(For my part... I don't let ego get involved...)

But you're welcome.

 

[Mnyb]

It is not six months of testing. It is a queue of products waiting to be tested. The actual testing takes a few weeks: https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/roon-ready

Are they keeping the queue long deliberately as any posh nightclub

 

[KEFCarver]

Try this: with the S3 on standby, go into the Fosi app and go through UPnP. This seems to be more reliable. Of course, once you select a song that way, it turns on the unit and then the scrolling problem resumes.

To be clear, I'm not offering a workaround as much as I am trying to help isolate the bug. My real workaround right now is to use BubbleUPnP app.

I am using the Fosi app's UPnP. I heard that "the team" has the video I sent showing the problem...

 

[Ruediger]

It would be very helpful for the review to include:

3. One last test for the streamer class (especially China based) is Privacy: how often does it phone home with user data? What information do they collect? Where is it phoning back to? How often? Privacy in this class of gear can be especially poor and in some cases actually dangerous to user's data privacy health. One Amazon user reports S3 needs login access to his wifi network or else remote doesn't work? AND... install app on phone is required. Can the unit work without giving it your wifi password and location? Can it be used with just a local network?

The privacy scope is almost impossible to review in a form that allows a factual statement about it's entirety. Because it needs to account for unknown things.

Negative testing for localnet/offline usage makes a lot of sense. It instantly shows broken designs.

When adding a new device to a network I monitor it's dns requests with pihole. Usually all the telemetry and talkback get blocked right away. But other things are noteworthy too. F.e. relying on internet servers to keep time, ignoring the localnet assignment. And losing time when power was away and the desired aws service or whatever is not reachable.

ps. WiiM are rather clean devices with 100% offline functionality. Others should aim for the same.

 

[OrangeWalrus]

I am curious if you would have similar issues if you set up a LMS Music server? That's what I use in a Docker compose configuration on Linux.

Summary: I've now tried MiniDLNA, Plex DLNA, and LMS DLNA. All showed the same problem intermittently - scrolling is limited to 31 items. Or rather, it works perfectly for all three. Or, when there is a problem, scrolling is limited to 31 items for all three.

I've now changed my mind and do not think it is a phone app issue. One can access the S3 through a browser interface and the browser based interface looks exactly like the phone app, even the UI skin. Put another way, it's possible that the phone app may be doing nothing more than opening a browser session and therefore the problem is with the software in the S3.

Meanwhile, BubbleUPnP still works fine with the S3.

 

[OrangeWalrus]

3. One last test for the streamer class (especially China based) is Privacy: how often does it phone home with user data? What information do they collect? Where is it phoning back to? How often? Privacy in this class of gear can be especially poor and in some cases actually dangerous to user's data privacy health. One Amazon user reports S3 needs login access to his wifi network or else remote doesn't work? AND... install app on phone is required. Can the unit work without giving it your wifi password and location? Can it be used with just a local network?

Without basic streaming compatibility/privacy disclosure included in the review the S3 could end up being a "Frequently returned item" on Amazon while receiving a glowing ASR review?

I'm not sure what that Amazon user encountered, but I have never set up my Wifi. I did need to set up the Bluetooth since that is how the remote works. Also, in retrospect, a phone app is not required since the S3 provides a browser interface - just enter the local IP address of the S3 into a browser and it looks exactly like the phone app. But this is something I discovered on a whim and I'm not sure anyone else would know this from reading the limited documentation.

That doesn't prove anything about privacy, but it does mean that while the software is in beta form, you can't believe everything stated about a product. I apply that to my own statements which I've self-contradicted a few times already.

Also, we have to be fair to what ASR does. I don't think the mission of ASR is to perform comprehensive product reviews that explore every nook and cranny of a user experience. ASR promotes science in audio and Amir has shown objective data about the S3's audio performance. Your concerns are valid, but maybe not the focus of ASR.

 

[amirm]

Without basic streaming compatibility/privacy disclosure included in the review the S3 could end up being a "Frequently returned item" on Amazon while receiving a glowing ASR review?

I didn't give it a glowing review. I deliberately brought it down a significant notch for unfinished software.

I am going to give my recommendation to Fosi S3 streamer. I would have ranked it the highest levels if it had support for Roon already available.

As noted, my job is to assess performance of a product. Any can, and many do, cover its functionality or lack thereof. I do however note what I encounter during my testing. If this is not enough, raise $50k a year and i will hire an intern to do such testing.

 

[yuting]

It would be very helpful for the review to include:
1. Details on whether UPnP/DLNA playback is functional? Does it limit the amount of tracks shown and playable? Is it usable or would it be considered broken by most NAS users? That's a basic requirement for any steamer. If not, it doesn't matter if it has XLR, should basic UPnP fail to display tracks.

2. Does the same track flaw show up with Qobuz over UPnP or Direct? Tidal or other streaming service? The buyer should know in advance what the streaming limitations are. Roon is estimated to have less than 0.1% of the global audio user market. So, listing widely adopted services that are supported versus those not supported would be very helpful: Apple Music, Amazon, Tidal, Qobuz etc.

3. One last test for the streamer class (especially China based) is Privacy: how often does it phone home with user data? What information do they collect? Where is it phoning back to? How often? Privacy in this class of gear can be especially poor and in some cases actually dangerous to user's data privacy health. One Amazon user reports S3 needs login access to his wifi network or else remote doesn't work? AND... install app on phone is required. Can the unit work without giving it your wifi password and location? Can it be used with just a local network?

Without basic streaming compatibility/privacy disclosure included in the review the S3 could end up being a "Frequently returned item" on Amazon while receiving a glowing ASR review?

thanks ,You should know that the product currently does not require login or user information input, and we do not collect any user data. The app is currently just a “remote controller for devices,” used solely for device control.

 

[medioman69]

I'm new with Fosi Streamer S3 and I confirm its missing "points" in iOS app (latest version 0.2.0):

• UPNP not working with Lyrion Music Server (I get "Failed to retrieve content"), LMS UPNP perfectly worlking with oter apps/hardware
• Roon Ready is "not ready"
• No Qobuz

So, for me, is pretty unusable...
I hope it'll start working asap

PS: S3 appears in LMS as client (boh!!!)