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Fosi Multichannel DAC coming!


Is this it? Because it's not what I'd be buying. We need a multichannel dac like the Topping one from a few years back.
 

Is this it? Because it's not what I'd be buying. We need a multichannel dac like the Topping one from a few years back.
It doesn't look like a multi-channel DAC.
 
It doesn't look like a multi-channel DAC.
It doesn't, but it is multi output (with HPF and LPF)... and considering it's the only product roughly round that area that's being planned by FOSI, I was wondering if the multichannel DAC they promised was this, or they're planning on something else they haven't yet announced. I'd buy the multichannel DAC from the get go.
 
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Well, it's been about nine months since Fosi's announcement regarding the "form factor" for a multi-channel DAC and we have heard nothing, nada, no news or announcements or (gasp) a product to show for it. At this point, who really cares about the "form factor".

@Fosi Audio : Build and sell the DAC already! I could care less if it has a remote control, a knob, settings/adjustments, or multiple anti-aliasing filter options.

I want a box with the following on the back:
1. A USB connection (don't care if it is B or C type)
2. Eight (ten would be even better!) TRS balanced outputs
3. AC input using an IEC receptacle and a built-in, universal voltage power supply

On the front:
LED display showing sample rate for WAV or DSD (if supported)
Power switch

Other performance related issues:
Please design the output stage so that people who use unbalanced interconnects (e.g that typically need RCA jacks) can use a simple TS-->RCA adapter jack in each TRS output without a big performance penalty. This has been a problem with other gear and the solution is really not all that complicated! Add one more output amplifier (discrete can also work here) stage after the DAC circuitry, drive only the HOT pin with signal, and make sure the impedances of (+) and (-) lines are as similar as possible (e.g. 0.1% or better matching). This is called a "Pseudo-Balanced Topology". Practically no one needs both hot and cold lines actively driven. This "feature" will make many customers happy and the product can work for a wide variety of users.
 
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I also agree that it should have the ability to connect RCA devices (maybe with included TS to RCA jacks or a few TRS to RCA cables with a floating pin).
I currently have my sub connected to the Fosi ZA3 but a multichannel DAC would make sub integration with CamillaDSP a lot easier
 
Other performance related issues:
Please design the output stage so that people who use unbalanced interconnects (e.g that typically need RCA jacks) can use a simple TS-->RCA adapter jack in each TRS output without a big performance penalty. This has been a problem with other gear and the solution is really not all that complicated! Add one more output amplifier (discrete can also work here) stage after the DAC circuitry, drive only the HOT pin with signal, and make sure the impedances of (+) and (-) lines are as similar as possible (e.g. 0.1% or better matching). This is called a "Pseudo-Balanced Topology". Practically no one needs both hot and cold lines actively driven. This "feature" will make many customers happy and the product can work for a wide variety of users.
I don't like that 'pseudo-balanced' label as it suggests it's not really balanced when in fact it is - the impedance on both legs is the same. The term 'impedance balanced' is also used for it and is more accurate.

One potential problem with this - some of the amps we've seen recently with 'balanced' inputs are in fact driving one half of a bridged output from hot and the other half from cold, so unless both legs are driven they won't perform as intended. I guess it saves an opamp or two over doing it properly. Schiit at least mention this in the FAQ for the Vidar 2 when using it as bridged mono, but you need to know to look for it. Some manufacturers don't even do that much, so it'll be a mystery to those owners what the problem is. It's a toss up whether they'll blame the amp manufacturer or the DAC which would be a reputational risk.
 
Yeah that is 100% true what you mention about balanced amplifiers, but those are probably far less than 1% of all amplifiers on the market today so if I was a manufacturer of a DAC or preamp I not lose sleep over it. "Fully balanced" amplifiers are a bit esoteric. Do you really think those owners are going to plunk down 10k to 50k on an amplifier (see for example https://balancedaudio.net/amplifiers) and then buy a multichannel DAC from "Fosi Audio" to go with it? These are just not in the same Venn diagram...

Anyway, the "impedance balanced" or whatever you want to call it would be a great solution for the Fosi product and would make it more versatile.
 
Yeah that is 100% true what you mention about balanced amplifiers, but those are probably far less than 1% of all amplifiers on the market today so if I was a manufacturer of a DAC or preamp I not lose sleep over it. "Fully balanced" amplifiers are a bit esoteric. Do you really think those owners are going to plunk down 10k to 50k on an amplifier (see for example https://balancedaudio.net/amplifiers) and then buy a multichannel DAC from "Fosi Audio" to go with it? These are just not in the same Venn diagram...
I'm talking about some of the recent TPA325x amps, not some multi-kilobuck amps. They're definitely in Fosi's market segment.
 
Maybe they are preparing a Christmas present ;)
 
We can hope so, but it's been a bit too long so I'm looking at buying something like a Motu Ultralite MK5 instead unless something happens real soon.
 
I suppose this dac died before it had been born
 
Yeah probably. Honestly it doesn't really make sense for a company to invest in developing a multichannel DAC.

Most DIY people will probably stick to a MiniDSP or similar DSP crossover devices instead of getting a 'dumb' multichannel DAC with CamillaDSP.
Pro audio people with probably just use a large interface from Focusrite, Motu or Audient.
For home theatre applications you're probably better off with a good Denon/ Marantz.

And the tiny crowd of people that want a multichannel DAC for surround/Atmos music really is not worth the investment.
I mean, how many units would they sell? Maybe a thousand?
 
Yeah probably. Honestly it doesn't really make sense for a company to invest in developing a multichannel DAC.

Most DIY people will probably stick to a MiniDSP or similar DSP crossover devices instead of getting a 'dumb' multichannel DAC with CamillaDSP.
Pro audio people with probably just use a large interface from Focusrite, Motu or Audient.
For home theatre applications you're probably better off with a good Denon/ Marantz.

And the tiny crowd of people that want a multichannel DAC for surround/Atmos music really is not worth the investment.
I mean, how many units would they sell? Maybe a thousand?

Some good points above, but there is more to the story. Any product has to have a potential market, and must be priced to sell to those who are in that market. As you mentioned, there are pro audio interfaces with multichannel analog output a plenty. Some of these are quite inexpensive (e.g. a couple hundred dollars) and with not too much more money you can get very, very high performance (e.g. MOTU Ultralite mk5). Fosi cannot simple develop a product that also costs, say, $500, and expect it to compete with existing pro audio interfaces and garner enough sales volume to make it worth the development time/cost.

But as an example of what might be attractive there are these products:
HiFiBerry DAC 8x - 8-channel DAC HAT for the Pi (alas, no ADC). Decent but not top notch performance, but perfect for a DIYer and costs well under $100.
Qudelix T71 - this is a small, portable DAC that was recently reviewed by Amir. Excellent performance and there is some sort of DSP and 8-channel output. Cost is listed as $229.

If Fosi can develop an 8-channel DAC along the lines of the Qudelix T71 but with only DAC functionality, and price is between the Qudelix and HiFiBerry units, they are right in the sweet spot in terms of cost/peformance and I think it would sell a decent number of units. It's up to them to feel out these tradeoffs, but maybe it is just not worth it with too many competing products?
 
Yeah probably. Honestly it doesn't really make sense for a company to invest in developing a multichannel DAC.

Most DIY people will probably stick to a MiniDSP or similar DSP crossover devices instead of getting a 'dumb' multichannel DAC with CamillaDSP.
Pro audio people with probably just use a large interface from Focusrite, Motu or Audient.
For home theatre applications you're probably better off with a good Denon/ Marantz.

And the tiny crowd of people that want a multichannel DAC for surround/Atmos music really is not worth the investment.
I mean, how many units would they sell? Maybe a thousand?
You're completely overlooking the ever-growing number of users who are running active speaker systems based on an FIR convolver with multi-channel DACs, such as the DAC8 PRO, for example, using Acourate.

All that's needed is an 8-channel USB DAC with single-ended and balanced outputs and no additional features. An inexpensive device in the €300 to €500 range would be ideal.
Good results should be achievable with just one or two inexpensive AK4458VN chips.
 
TPA3255 variant: Per channel prices on Amazon USA:
PAM252: 2 Channel: 180$ per channel
PAM253: 3 Channel: 140$ per channel
PAM254: 4 Channel: 125$ per channel
PAM256: 6 Channel: 117$ per channel
PAM258: 8 Channel: 100$ per channel
They're amps not DACs.
 
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