Fosi Merak Review (CD Player)

[Roland68]

@NTTY

Excellent review thanks!

Did you try playback of CDs of 60-70 min+?

Really interested in a small footprint, robust top loader to use as transport in a minimalist system.

I have a cheap thinkya that starts skipping at 60 min+. Was looking at the much more expensive shanling ET3 but some users report the same issues.
Both are small top loaders, wondering if these issues are part of shared construction/drive.

This one seems to fit the bill though.

What is the cheapest place to get one in the EU...?

A bit offtopic, but is this the Thinkya JA-310? Because I've been contemplating that one because it's both cheaper and much better looking than the Fosi. Do you know if this 60 min+ skipping is known bug for all these Thinkya? And how does it do with gapless playback?

Thanks for the warning.
I was planning to order a THINKYA R01 from Audiophonics this evening—which presumably shares the same underlying platform—but I’ll hold off on that for now.

It seems I’ll have to bite the bullet and spend the money on the PL200T eventually after all. It’s frustrating, because due to the size constraints, I have to spend significantly more than I would for a used Tascam CD-200(xx).

 

[Matias]

Amazing test, thanks!
As a transport to a higher performing DAC it looks perfect.

 

[Roland68]

CD writers for computers where $30 20 years ago why is it impossible now?

By "impossible," I meant that standard CD-ROM drives cannot write data to CDs, and PC burner drives cannot simply be installed in audio equipment. If you meant something else, I was unable to gather that from your post.

The drives you are referring to are standardized PC drives with burning capabilities—units that were manufactured in the millions back in the day for use in notebooks, PCs, Macs, servers, and a host of other devices. It was precisely these enormous production volumes, combined with competitive market pressures, that made these drives so inexpensive.
In fact, even today, external USB CD/DVD burners of this type cost only €14–20 on Amazon.de; so, I am not sure what point you are trying to make.

However, the audio sector has always required different types of drives—or, at the very least, different control mechanisms—meaning that such drives have consistently been significantly more expensive.
While there were indeed attempts to adapt these PC burners for audio applications, hardly any manufacturer managed to implement this successfully. Typically, a small embedded computer running on a Windows or Linux platform was built into the unit, and—all too often—the inferior S/PDIF outputs of those PC drives were utilized.

 

[Tell]

Thanks for the warning.
I was planning to order a THINKYA R01 from Audiophonics this evening—which presumably shares the same underlying platform—but I’ll hold off on that for now.

It seems I’ll have to bite the bullet and spend the money on the PL200T eventually after all. It’s frustrating, because due to the size constraints, I have to spend significantly more than I would for a used Tascam CD-200(xx).

I just find it so annoying that we could build CD players almost as small as a CD that played flawlessly and probably didn't cost that much either, but today you have to spend way too much money for them just to be sure that they perform as they should.

I'm atarting to contemplate to build one from a RaspPI, a tiny OLED screen and a USB CD drive. I'm not really into Linux, but it shouldn't be thaat hard right?

 

[Audioagnostic]

No, this has nothing to do with the mechanical design of the drives, as the exact same drive mechanisms are used for both top-loading and tray-loading units. The CD clamping mechanism also comes in various forms: a spring-clip version, a magnetic puck version (typically found in tray-loaders, though also used in boomboxes with hinged lids), and a simple pressure-puck version.

The issue likely lies with the control electronics and the associated integrated circuits (ICs). The older ICs are presumably no longer available—or are prohibitively expensive—and regarding the newer ICs, it appears that certain technical know-how has been lost; knowledge which, evidently, cannot be restored simply through firmware updates.

In most cases, it seems that a relatively modern chip—manufactured within the last few years—is being utilized; this chip notably includes features such as the ability to rip CDs to USB drives in WAV format.
I have personally tested several different drives, and so far, I haven't had any success with any of them—not even with Shanling units.
The problems encountered included, among other things: the inability to detect or play a CD at all; a lack of gapless playback support; and various issues affecting the final 1 to 3 tracks of a CD. These issues sometimes manifested as audio artifacts during playback—such as ticking sounds, dropouts, or digital distortion—which, interestingly enough, were reproduced identically in the resulting digital rips. However, when ripping the same CDs via a Mac using a standard external USB drive, absolutely no problems occurred.
All of the CDs in question adhered to the 74-minute time limit and fully complied with the Compact Disc standard. Their manufacturing dates spanned a wide range, from the early 1990s (with one dating back to 1989) right up to the present day. Furthermore, all these CDs played back flawlessly on standard, full-size Hi-Fi CD players.

We have several highly knowledgeable members in this forum who are far more familiar with this subject matter and might be able to shed some further light on the issue.
Perhaps @Scytales knows more about this.

Interesting. But to be sure, you are also talking about issues specific for long, 60 min+, CDs?

 

[Audioagnostic]

Thanks for the warning.
I was planning to order a THINKYA R01 from Audiophonics this evening—which presumably shares the same underlying platform—but I’ll hold off on that for now.

It seems I’ll have to bite the bullet and spend the money on the PL200T eventually after all. It’s frustrating, because due to the size constraints, I have to spend significantly more than I would for a used Tascam CD-200(xx).

I do have the Tascam CD200, bought in new state in box etc for 100 euro. Excellent player but it is big and I am also looking for a smaller unit.

 

[Fleuch]

What is the DS2?

Thought it was the Pro-Ject CD Box DS2 T, since the subject is a CD player.

 

[dark132]

I hope it will have a 20% discount in China, I would be very happy to buy one

 

[Roland68]

I just find it so annoying that we could build CD players almost as small as a CD that played flawlessly and probably didn't cost that much either, but today you have to spend way too much money for them just to be sure that they perform as they should.

I'm atarting to contemplate to build one from a RaspPI, a tiny OLED screen and a USB CD drive. I'm not really into Linux, but it shouldn't be thaat hard right?

I don't mean to discourage you, but perhaps this limited information will be of some help.

In my last post—Post #43, located directly above yours—I already pointed out that doing exactly that is not quite so simple.
On AliExpress, for instance, you can find external controllers for PC CD drives for around €30; these units typically include a display, button controls, and a remote control. The catch, however, is that the drive continues to behave like a standard PC drive—meaning it plays CDs at very high rotational speeds, which generates a significant amount of noise. Furthermore, you would need a drive equipped with an S/PDIF output.

Similarly, the simplest approach would be to simply use my dedicated ripping drive; however, on a Mac, I was never able to figure out how to control the CD drive in such a way that it would run at single speed only.
I have never tested whether there is any specific method or software available to achieve this under Windows.

Based on my experience with various projects involving companies that have either utilized—or attempted to utilize—such drives, I know that doing so typically requires modifying the drive's firmware. Alternatively, one is forced to rely on a select few very old drive models—most of which are even the older IDE type—which are now traded like gold and command triple-digit prices.

 

[NTTY]

Thought it was the Pro-Ject CD Box DS2 T, since the subject is a CD player.

It would make more sense, except that the price of that one is way higher than the Fosi, and it is a transport only.

 

[Tell]

I don't mean to discourage you, but perhaps this limited information will be of some help.

In my last post—Post #43, located directly above yours—I already pointed out that doing exactly that is not quite so simple.
On AliExpress, for instance, you can find external controllers for PC CD drives for around €30; these units typically include a display, button controls, and a remote control. The catch, however, is that the drive continues to behave like a standard PC drive—meaning it plays CDs at very high rotational speeds, which generates a significant amount of noise. Furthermore, you would need a drive equipped with an S/PDIF output.

Similarly, the simplest approach would be to simply use my dedicated ripping drive; however, on a Mac, I was never able to figure out how to control the CD drive in such a way that it would run at single speed only.
I have never tested whether there is any specific method or software available to achieve this under Windows.

Based on my experience with various projects involving companies that have either utilized—or attempted to utilize—such drives, I know that doing so typically requires modifying the drive's firmware. Alternatively, one is forced to rely on a select few very old drive models—most of which are even the older IDE type—which are now traded like gold and command triple-digit prices.

I was thinking that one plugs the drive into the Raspberry Pi which has its own software to play music and then spits it out using a SPDIF connected to the GPIO pins on the Pi. I mean my Windows machine plays CD music just fine using a USB CD drive, so why shouldn't a small Linux machine be able to do the same?

 

[NTTY]

@NTTY

Excellent review thanks!

Did you try playback of CDs of 60-70 min+?

I’ll give it a try and I think my test CD is now over 60min, let me confirm.

 

[Scytales]

We have several highly knowledgeable members in this forum who are far more familiar with this subject matter and might be able to shed some further light on the issue.
Perhaps @Scytales knows more about this.

I am flattered that you thought of me, but I fear I can be of no help, as I am not that knowledgeable.

 

[Roland68]

I was thinking that one plugs the drive into the Raspberry Pi which has its own software to play music and then spits it out using a SPDIF connected to the GPIO pins on the Pi. I mean my Windows machine plays CD music just fine using a USB CD drive, so why shouldn't a small Linux machine be able to do the same?

Playback works without any issues—even on my Mac.
However, when the CD spins at 20x, 30x, or 50x speed during playback, it creates a highly annoying racket that nobody needs. Furthermore, some drives repeatedly spin up until their buffer is full, only to slow down again. And this behavior is hardwired directly into the drives' firmware.
With CD drives installed inside computer cases—especially tower units sitting on the floor that are well-dampened—this isn't such a major problem; but if the drive is sitting on your desk, just 50 centimeters away from your ears, it certainly is.
As I mentioned, I cannot say whether there is any software available for Windows or Linux that can override this behavior.

 

[leebergtally]

Writes audio CDs? No, it rips songs to USB memory

One review said it rips in realtime, if so it’s not all that useful to me for ripping. Wouldn’t buy it for that anyway. My IMac with cd drive does a fine job.

 

[fordiebianco]

Dear @NTTY , many thanks for another excellent review of what looks like a brilliant little transport. Please share your experience with 60 min + CDs, as someof my classical CDs are of that length.

Top person!

 

[FuzzPizza]

Does the FOSI play Enhanced CDs? The audio content of course, not the multimedia meant for pc.

 

[trevor_bartram]

Playback works without any issues—even on my Mac.
However, when the CD spins at 20x, 30x, or 50x speed during playback, it creates a highly annoying racket that nobody needs. Furthermore, some drives repeatedly spin up until their buffer is full, only to slow down again. And this behavior is hardwired directly into the drives' firmware.
With CD drives installed inside computer cases—especially tower units sitting on the floor that are well-dampened—this isn't such a major problem; but if the drive is sitting on your desk, just 50 centimeters away from your ears, it certainly is.
As I mentioned, I cannot say whether there is any software available for Windows or Linux that can override this behavior.

In most Linux distributions you can set the max playback speed. I use Ubuntu & Asunder & have the speed set to 20x max to reduce wear on the drive.

 

[Roland68]

In most Linux distributions you can set the max playback speed. I use Ubuntu & Asunder & have the speed set to 20x max to reduce wear on the drive.

I prefer it this way, and it's also best for noise levels, when the rotation speed matches the laser position for a simple read speed.
So, at the beginning of the CD (near at the center), about 500 RPM, and at the end of the CD (right at the outer edge), about 200 RPM.

With a 20x speed limit, that's still 10,000 RPM, which of course produces a completely different noise level.

The Tascam CD-200(xx) players and the current high-quality TEAC CD players, all of which use the TEAC CD-5020A drive, run at this low, optimized speed and have played all my CDs flawlessly and without gaps, CDs that gave me problems on all my other newer players, even those well over 60 minutes long.

 

[NicS]

I’m still waiting for the SACD version of this. Perhaps even a true Universal Disk Transport:
CD
SACD
DVD-A
Blu-ray Audio

Two outputs:
HDMI for multichannel
Optical / AES for stereo

USB-C power input

No DAC

That’s it. Sign me up.