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Fosi M03 / Aiyima 3001 / Nobsound G2 Pro mono sub amp review

One amplifier I recently bought states 750 Joule of energy storage for example. It has a Vpk of 185V
that choice of Joules would be classic spec fiddling by the marketing team I think :). 750J at 185V is 2*750/(185^2) = 47000uF. Huh, look at that, the amp likely has 47000uF of capacitors in it - can you name the model or open it up and take a photo? If that is true then probably only 25% of that is usable as the voltage drops sharply with initial discharge, so instead of the implied 750 watt-seconds, we're looking at more like 175, which isa still useful 1kW for 100ms.

What's interesting is that it suggests the real difference between "Pro" and "Consumer" power amps is the use of higher output voltages in the pro gear to get to higher peak outputs.
 
I see these used often for driving tactile transducers, which can create usable output well below 20 Hz. Any other measurements or considerations that could be beneficial, to characterize the amp for this type of use case?
No inherent problem with 10Hz, to say any more would require knowing the impedance and sensitivity of the bass shaker.
 
If you want to measure dynamic headroom, you'll have to record the signal the amplifier is generating and prod the recording manually (or use an AP/Klippel routine; I'm not sure if either of those has a method to output power over time graphs).

You're making it too hard, and potentially confusing amplifier clipping headroom with amplifier dynamic headroom.

You do have an oscilloscope, right? For dynamic headroom, use the standard EIA 1kHz toneburst (20 cycles 0dB, 480 cycles -20dB). Wind up the level with your loaded amplifier until the 20 cycle bursts hit the wall, back it off and read the peak voltage. That's how it has been done for 50 years or more.
 
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That's how it has been done for 50 years or more.
Amplifiers today are fundamentally different from amplifiers 50 years ago. A 20 cycle burst (20ms duration) will tell you dynamic headroom for a single 50Hz cycle (20ms duration), which is typically where the kick drum sits, so it's a useful stat in the practical sense, but again less precise and less information than the output over time graph I proposed and showed examples of earlier in the thread (scroll down from the post you replied to and you'll see some screenshots). Providing 20ms burst power ratings is nice tho and I'm happy when I see them alongside long term power output figures. I'm not sure what you mean by "clipping headroom", I've never heard that term in any kind of technical context.
 
that choice of Joules would be classic spec fiddling by the marketing team I think :). 750J at 185V is 2*750/(185^2) = 47000uF. Huh, look at that, the amp likely has 47000uF of capacitors in it - can you name the model or open it up and take a photo? If that is true then probably only 25% of that is usable as the voltage drops sharply with initial discharge, so instead of the implied 750 watt-seconds, we're looking at more like 175, which isa still useful 1kW for 100ms.

What's interesting is that it suggests the real difference between "Pro" and "Consumer" power amps is the use of higher output voltages in the pro gear to get to higher peak outputs.
14 of these equates to 42mF:

kiJIbGz.jpeg


In my tests the amp delivered 4x2600W (4 Ohm) for 40ms and then dropped to 4x700W at 400ms. The 4x8Ohm test held 4x1300W for 250ms and then also dropped to 4x700W at 400ms (which is quite possibly the breaker protection limiter, which was set to 15A, which is the maximum it can be set to and you can't turn it off).
That equates to a little over 400 Joule of energy released in the first 40ms burst, which likely first drained the caps, then spiked current draw on the PSU side, which subsequently triggered the AC mains current limiter. I have access to like 6 different limiter types in the dsp and there are at least 4 internal (protective) limiters (peak limiter to prevent hard clipping; breaker protection limiter; temperature control plus another limiter which keeps long-term rms output current under control). It feel like looking at a fine-tuned engine nowadays: everything is optimized so that the device doesn't damage itself, but every parts is working near its limit and no potential is wasted. 40 years ago the solution would've been "have you tried making it heavier" :D
 
Thanks for that review. Note that the filter response is 2nd order (12dB/octave) not 1st order as mentioned in your review.
 
Thanks for that review. Note that the filter response is 2nd order (12dB/octave) not 1st order as mentioned in your review.
Oops! I’ll correct that.
 

Thanks for the review.​

A difference I notced among the 3 is that the Nobsound has gain control switches. Also, the 3255 is variously referred as the 3255D. Is this an important distinction?
Wouldn't the Frequency Control be better assigned to the back of the unit, since after optimizing the setting of the Frequency Control (using something like REW) it could be accidentally changed from the front?
 

Thanks for the review.​

A difference I notced among the 3 is that the Nobsound has gain control switches. Also, the 3255 is variously referred as the 3255D. Is this an important distinction?
Wouldn't the Frequency Control be better assigned to the back of the unit, since after optimizing the setting of the Frequency Control (using something like REW) it could be accidentally changed from the front?
The Aiyima has the switches on the board, but they aren’t exposed through the case so you have to take it apart to change them. As for the “d2” designation, it only seems to appear in a diagram on page one of the datasheet, there’s no separate chip of that name.
 
I have a Nobsound G2 Pro, it has gain selector DIP switches underneath. Does the Fosi have those, too?

I'm using the amp to drive a 12" Velodyne sub with dead plate amp (6 ohm driver). Works wonderfully.
What do you do with the gain selector when I have a volume control?
 
What do you do with the gain selector when I have a volume control?
If your DAC/Preamp has the ability to output high voltage you can lower the gain of the Fosi, which will improve the signal to noise ratio. Or if your source has a low output voltage like some AVRs, you can increase the gain to get a more useful range in the volume control of the Fosi. It's not particularly relevant to the intended use as a passive sub amp, but nice to know it's there if needed.
 
If your DAC/Preamp has the ability to output high voltage you can lower the gain of the Fosi, which will improve the signal to noise ratio. Or if your source has a low output voltage like some AVRs, you can increase the gain to get a more useful range in the volume control of the Fosi. It's not particularly relevant to the intended use as a passive sub amp, but nice to know it's there if needed.
I see, thank you.
 
I have one of these, trying to get it to run a sub w/ a fried amp. At first blush I'm not impressed but perhaps I have something not set up properly. As for the gain switches, does one have to remove the case to access these? And if one does how does one know what values they are selecting? Their tiny owners manual isn't all that informative.
 
This is a review and measurements of the Fosi Audio M03 mono TPA3255 amplifier. It's designed to drive passive subwoofers which is why I bought it as I have an old sub I want to put to use in my games room. It appears to be identical to the Aiyima 3001 and Nobsound G2 Pro amps, and costs $90 on the Fosi website. It's a dedicated mono amp so only has one set of speaker outputs, and comes with an adjustable low pass filter in "sub mode". It ships with a 36V 5A supply brick, so we can expect max power to be 150W or less. It does claim it can be used with a bigger power supply, so I also tested that with a 48V/350W supply - see the results below.

View attachment 404203View attachment 404204View attachment 404205View attachment 404213

Build and components

Before we get to the measurements let's talk about build and component quality. For a $90 amp the case, switches and knobs are all solid, with positive switch movement and good soldering. The power supply cabling on the DC side is marked as 20ga/0.5mm^2, but I checked and it's more like 22ga/0.3mm^2. Either way it is marginal for the rated 5A. The internal cabling from the amp outputs to the speaker terminals is also too thin, but I didn't take it apart to measure it. The board itself seems reasonably well put together. To increase power you can use up to a 48V supply according to the manufacturer. But the power supply capacitors are only 50V rated, which leaves no margin and could decrease the lifetime of the unit if operated at high power outputs. The heatsink is also only connected to the amp chip not the case, and in soak testing it hits thermal cutout after 60 seconds 5 minutes at 100W continuous output, or 1 minute at 150W (with a 48V supply). The good news is that the built in protection works and after power cycling it works fine again.

Inputs, switches, gain and filters

I need to explain the inputs and switches because the manual isn't easy to interpret. There are two RCA inputs on the back, one set of speaker outputs, and a switch on the front marked "PBTL/SUB". Then there's a "VOL" knob and a "SUB FREQ" knob. In either "SUB" or "PBTL" modes both inputs are summed. Gain in PBTL mode with both channels driven and the VOL knob at its midpoint is 32dB. Switch to SUB mode and gain doubles to 38dB. So one input driven in sub mode, or two inputs driven in PBTL mode give you the same overall gain. I don't show it below but distortion is the basically the same with the VOL knob at midpoint or max, so if you have a low output source you can use the volume knob with confidence.

In PBTL mode the "SUB FREQ" control does nothing. In SUB mode it gives an approximately second order rolloff depending on the setting. -6dB points are 45Hz at the lowest setting and 200Hz for the highest setting. All measurements are made with sub mode off.

View attachment 404214

Let's go to the measurements.

Unless otherwise stated, these measurements are taken at 5W into a 4ohm load using the stock 36V/5A supply in PBTL mode and an AES17 40KHz filter as is usual for class D amp measurements. The software is REW, the DAC is a Topping D10 balanced, and the ADC is an E1DA Cosmos ADCiso.

A frequency sweep looks good although for a sub amp the drop at 20Hz isn't ideal - maybe it uses PFFB as there seems to be no hump after 20KHz?

View attachment 404217

The 1KHz 5W FFT is good for noise at -110dB, but not great for distortion for a TPA3255 implementation, where we would expect closer to a 94dB SNR. I suspect the issue is with the front end where the filtering is taking place. Even though filtering is not enabled we see a bit of excess 3rd harmonic. This will be irrelevant for the intended use as a sub amp though.

View attachment 404216

19&20KHz dual tone is what you would expect given the above performance, with IM peaks around -50dB vs best-in-class TPA3255 at -70dB. Not audible or important for the usage as a sub amp, but worth noting.View attachment 404221

The 32 tone multitone test isn't very pretty either at 12.8 bits, but is consistent with similar amps and fine for a sub amp - we are paying less than $100 here!

View attachment 404218

Now let's talk about power. Using the stock supply into a typical 4ohm load at 20Hz we only get about 100W at 1% THD (the result is the same at 20Hz or 1KHz):

View attachment 404219

If we switch to a bigger supply (Mean-Well 48V 350W) we can get to 230W into 4ohms:

View attachment 404220

But if we use a 2ohm load, even with the bigger power supply we only get to 100W. I suspect the inductors are saturating, or some other internal limiter is kicking in. [EDIT: doh! The bigger supply is 350W = 48V*7.3A, so I^2*R = 7.3^2*2 = 106W. Lots of these power results are simply current limited by the power supply].

Conclusions:

If used as intended with the stock power supply it will give 100W of clean power to a 4ohm passive sub, while summing both the inputs and providing some useful low pass filtering options. That's what it's meant for and I'll be keeping it in my games room system for that purpose. I'm not so impressed with some of the other claims made by Fosi regarding upgrading the power supply and so on, but for the money it's hard to complain.


Can the Fosi Audio 48V 10A Power Supply be used for Fosi M03 subwoofer amp?
Or an equivalent?
 
Don't see any gain switches.
 

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Don't see any gain switches.

On the Nobsound they're accessed through an opening at the bottom of the case, so I'm pretty sure they're on the underside of the PCB.
 
On the Nobsound they're accessed through an opening at the bottom of the case, so I'm pretty sure they're on the underside of the PCB.
Not sure how to access the bottom-would have to remove the speaker binding posts and RCA plugs...
 
Hi again mcdn,

Did you analyze why the M03 has a frequncy drop at 20Hz? Is it due to the input circuits before the TPA chip? I also see the PSU caps looks tiny.

Might dump the Fosi V3 as I want dual mono sub amps and modify the M03 to go directly into input_A and input_B(via input caps) from DSP.

I don´t play very loud, so cooling will not be a problem.

Cheers
Lars
 
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