Fosi Audio ZD3 Balanced DAC Review

[Demmers]

Sure, but isn't it a case where the 7cm height was carefully devised to elevate the sound of music to new levels? That's another bad point for ZD3: it can't accommodate these tall opamsp, and users would have to accept the flat sound of all these low-profile opamps !!!

One more time, this is in the ZD3 features description by Fosi:
View attachment 408674

I am looking for a transparent DAC... so I should buy the ZD3 and swap the opamps to this Sparkos SS3602--that's the only one delivering a "Transparent Signature". But... but, I should only listen to Classical, Jazz, and Audiophiles Recordings? What the...???
And there is no recommendation for Country Music... ZD3 is not recommended for Country Music...??? OMG !!!
Oh and by the way, what is the definition of an "audiophile recording" that I shall play with the Sparkos SS36022? Where can I find those recordings? How are they labelled / tagged? What would make a recording not qualifying as "audiophile recording"?

I shall stop my ranting here, but I hope it is clear that these baseless, unproved, opamp "signatures" and genre "recommendations" are, IMO, damaging the whole Fosi brand credibility.
Unless Fosi comes up with its data/measurement supporting their claims & recommendations...

But surely there's irony in this, when everybody else outside this hobby would balk at the idea of spending money on, what is essentially, another headphone jack!
"Why do you need a DAC/amp, when I have a perfectly good headphone jack on my computer?"
I watched that Audio Masterclass video, and there is a difference between those two op-amp recordings. So is op-amp rolling to us what DAC/amps are to everyone else?

 

[Iggypot]

I got my ZD3 yesterday, hoping to hook it up over the weekend. I have a question though….

I’ll be using a WiiM Ultra feed, which I plan to connect to the ZD3 via optical, the ZD3 will then connect to a pair of V3 Monos via XLR.

If I also connect the Ultra to the ZD3 with a trigger cable, will powering up the Ultra activate the ZD3…..and if so will that activate the V3 Monos which are currently in Auto Signal Sensing mode?

Lastly….with this setup, do I set the Ultra output volume to 100?

Sorry for the noob questions, I’m rather paranoid about blowing my speakers

Thanks all

 

[Axo1989]

One more time, this is in the ZD3 features description by Fosi:
View attachment 408674

I am looking for a transparent DAC... so I should buy the ZD3 and swap the opamps to this Sparkos SS3602--that's the only one delivering a "Transparent Signature". But... but, I should only listen to Classical, Jazz, and Audiophiles Recordings? What the...???
And there is no recommendation for Country Music... ZD3 is not recommended for Country Music...??? OMG !!!
Oh and by the way, what is the definition of an "audiophile recording" that I shall play with the Sparkos SS36022? Where can I find those recordings? How are they labelled / tagged? What would make a recording not qualifying as "audiophile recording"?

I shall stop my ranting here, but I hope it is clear that these baseless, unproved, opamp "signatures" and genre "recommendations" are, IMO, damaging the whole Fosi brand credibility.
Unless Fosi comes up with its data/measurement supporting their claims & recommendations...

The reactions to op-amp rolling are an added bonus when reading this thread.

And they raise questions. Some of the answers are obvious. For example, nobody should listen to country music (that was easy). The marketing calculus is easy to guess. The loss of some indignant fraction of the ASR purity test market is likely offset by the gain in the audiophile-curious market, plus the added revenue from op-amp options. Those tasting notes aren't for the logical, they are for the suggestible. And look at the adorable micro surface-mount components on the artisanal Sparkos. Who doesn't want that, and a kitten?

All that aside, I think this DAC is a good offer. It's as astonishingly cheap as the other high-SINAD black boxes, measures well, and looks nicer.

 

[sckortyman]

Just needs PEQ and it can replace my Wiim + E50 setup for my tv

 

[CT Man]

I got my ZD3 yesterday, hoping to hook it up over the weekend. I have a question though….

I’ll be using a WiiM Ultra feed, which I plan to connect to the ZD3 via optical, the ZD3 will then connect to a pair of V3 Monos via XLR.

If I also connect the Ultra to the ZD3 with a trigger cable, will powering up the Ultra activate the ZD3…..and if so will that activate the V3 Monos which are currently in Auto Signal Sensing mode?

Lastly….with this setup, do I set the Ultra output volume to 100?

Sorry for the noob questions, I’m rather paranoid about blowing my speakers

Thanks all

Ultra trigger out to ZD3 to signal sensing monos should work. There might be a slight lag powering up the monos where you miss a bit of audio at the start.

If you want to control volume with the ZD3 you can set Ultra to Fixed Volume. That would mean using the Ultra controls (touchscreen, remote or app) for play/pause, etc. along with the ZD3 remote for volume.

You could use the "bypass" switch on the bottom of ZD3 to set it to fixed volume, in which case you'd need to control volume from any device connected to the ZD3 optical, coax or USB input. It's unclear to me how the ZD3 bypass mode works with HDMI ARC CEC or Bluetooth sources.

 

[RCS]

It should be nice stack with two mono V3s.

It is. I'm using a stack with the ZD3 (in bypass mode), 2 V3 Mono's, Schiit Saga 2 and a Wiim Pro.

I did have a V3 Mono go down shortly after it arrived. Fosi was very good about sending out a new board part. (Was easy to swap.) It's back in action.
The V3Mono amps run warm. Much more so than the ZA3 (which I also have in another stack in the shop), but I don't think that was the issue with the one that went down as the other one is issue free so far.
I did order the Fosi accessory fans to try with the V3 Mono's.

Haven't rolled any amps in the ZD3. The stock LME49720 sound pretty good to me. It did come with 3 JRC 4580D op amps to try.

 

[JakeK]

LDAC not supported (QCC3031) ?

Yes. The lack of LDAC is a deal breaker for me. I'm looking to buy a DAC preamp with LDAC so I was interested in this review. It does at least have Aptx HD but why build a high SINAD DAC and hamper it by having owners limit the performance by using only Aptx HD when you could have designed in a chip with LDAC. I expect lots of people will use the bluetooth otherwise why put it in at all?

Thank you Amirm.
About the product, it would be perfect with analog input as well. At the moment you can not add vinyl player directly to this. At the moment I have ZA3 amp and I would control the volume with DAC.

Yes, this DAC has volume control, screen and a remote so it could work as a preamp but for some the lack of a line in will be a deal breaker. I'm put off buying a preamp/DAC with no line in as I might want to plug something basic in that has only line out.

I am still waiting for a DAC with HDMI arc with EQ presets (5bands+). I'm using a 42 oled TV as a PC monitor and sometimes I want to use the build-in TV apps. It would be very nice if I could set an EQ for the speakers for all my use cases.

Yes. At that point it's a full on preamp and that's also something that's only served in the market by the MiniDSP flex at the moment and maybe the RME ADI-2 as far as I know. I don't think even the flex has HDMI so for that as well you're looking at a full on AVR. You could use an HDMI audio extractor with the flex though. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/minidsp-flex-review-audio-dsp.30804/

Amazon Basics 4K HDMI Extractor Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Amazon Basics 4K HDMI extractor. Member kindly purchased and drop shipped it to me. It normally costs $22.89 but was on sale for just $5!!! The case is the standard metal one for these kinds of adapters. Power is provided with a supplied USB-A...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I would also want a sub out and a high pass filter for when the sub is used, along with EQ/DSP for room correction.

 

[fatoldgit]

What this shows is you CAN support XLR outs in a small footprint case... instead of the TRS stuff.

I will get one just to compare it against my current DEQX DAC/PRE (obviously it wont do room correction like the DEQX but I do have a camillaDSP config that emulates the DEQX PEQ so can throw that into the mix).

Never really delved into cheaper stuff simply cause of my first point.

Have a spare 12v LPS to use with it/compare to the supplied PS.

Peter

 

[Iggypot]

Ultra trigger out to ZD3 to signal sensing monos should work. There might be a slight lag powering up the monos where you miss a bit of audio at the start.

If you want to control volume with the ZD3 you can set Ultra to Fixed Volume. That would mean using the Ultra controls (touchscreen, remote or app) for play/pause, etc. along with the ZD3 remote for volume.

You could use the "bypass" switch on the bottom of ZD3 to set it to fixed volume, in which case you'd need to control volume from any device connected to the ZD3 optical, coax or USB input. It's unclear to me how the ZD3 bypass mode works with HDMI ARC CEC or Bluetooth sources.

That’s really helpful, thank you very much.

 

[Iggypot]

It is. I'm using a stack with the ZD3 (in bypass mode), 2 V3 Mono's, Schiit Saga 2 and a Wiim Pro.

I did have a V3 Mono go down shortly after it arrived. Fosi was very good about sending out a new board part. (Was easy to swap.) It's back in action.
The V3Mono amps run warm. Much more so than the ZA3 (which I also have in another stack in the shop), but I don't think that was the issue with the one that went down as the other one is issue free so far.
I did order the Fosi accessory fans to try with the V3 Mono's.

Haven't rolled any amps in the ZD3. The stock LME49720 sound pretty good to me. It did come with 3 JRC 4580D op amps to try.

Thanks for your reply….I'm intrigued by your set up, could I ask if my understanding below is correct?

WiiM Pro to ZD3 (DAC only?) to Schiit Saga 2 (Pre amp) to V3 Monos to speakers…is that correct?

I only ask as I’m a recent returner to hi fi after an absence of about 40 years, back then we had a turntable, an amp and some speakers

 

[dr0ss]

The Sonos was a bust. However, a member told me about an HDMI splitter that had the right feature set. I tested it and it worked! It has a ton of features to boot. This is the one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BNSY3VKW?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

The same company (ezcool) also have a super-inexpensive 2-port version of this that is highly regarded on video forums. It can also downmix Dolby audio, which helps with some compatibility problems. No ARC on the 2-port model, however.

 

[Romario]

Thanks for your reply….I'm intrigued by your set up, could I ask if my understanding below is correct?

WiiM Pro to ZD3 (DAC only?) to Schiit Saga 2 (Pre amp) to V3 Monos to speakers…is that correct?

I only ask as I’m a recent returner to hi fi after an absence of about 40 years, back then we had a turntable, an amp and some speakers

Wiim pro + ZD3 = Wiim Ultra

 

[Piotr]

Wiim pro + ZD3 = Wiim Ultra

except you cannot control the volume, unless the bypass does not work with the arc; somebody has to verify that

still, imagine you want to play the music from amazon music / spotify via smartphone - it won't simply work out of the box because it will not automatically detect the correct input


it's just better to get the wiim ultra and forget about all those issues; you control everything with phone or tv remote

 

[NeLey169]

FYI here's the user manual: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2251/7913/files/ZD3_User_Manual.pdf

If the input mode is set to "HDMI" then CEC can turn the ZD3 on/off. If set to another input it will only turn on/off automatically through the 12v trigger.

My questions and Fosi's replies are below. Hats off to them for a timely and meaningful response.

Questions:
*** Will the ZD3 turn on/off and switch to the HDMI input through CEC controlled by a television?
*** Can the ZD3 be set to switch automatically to any input with an active signal?
*** Can the ZD3 remember separate volume levels for each input?
*** Does the ZD3 have signal sensing both for turning on and for entering Standby mode?

1. Only in HDMI (ARC) Input Mode: Synchronized power control can only be initiated by the device sending the signal. The ZD3 cannot control the power of the output device synchronously.
2. You will need to switch modes either using the unit itself or the remote control.
3. It does not have a volume memory function for each input.
4. No, you can use the trigger output from an external device to turn on the ZD3 automatically.

Can I use HDMI cable to connect from B660M Mortar to Fosi zd3?

And i really don't hear a difference with bypass off and on

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

LOL !!!

It is obviously bipolar, according to the diagram but especially in view of the input currents, given for 4.5 μA typical, and 6 μA maximum.
With FET or MOS inputs, we would be below 50 nA, so 100 times less

The problem is known with bipolar inputs: if the impedances "seen" by the two inputs are different, this creates a continuous offset in the output

At the time of the eternal NE5534, manufacturers were forced to put link condos on the two inputs and sometimes also on the output, of the chemical type of course...
... "****** sound"

I now see NO reason to continue using bipolar devices, when AOPs with FET inputs are now "free of the noise" and stability issues they suffered from in their early days.

There are discrete AOPs using FETs, not only for inputs, but also for diode and current generator functions: they are better than bipolar on all criteria, objectives AND subjectives.
But they are patented, by Burson or others...
By putting bipolar like here, we are simply circumventing patents

I saw the prices of Sparkos: scam !!!
It should be sold for 10-15 € no more...
... However, some say that it's always better when it's more expensive

But all this is just my personal opinion.

Regards.

 

[Ropeburn]

Yes. The lack of LDAC is a deal breaker for me. I'm looking to buy a DAC preamp with LDAC so I was interested in this review. It does at least have Aptx HD but why build a high SINAD DAC and hamper it by having owners limit the performance by using only Aptx HD when you could have designed in a chip with LDAC. I expect lots of people will use the bluetooth otherwise why put it in at all?



Yes, this DAC has volume control, screen and a remote so it could work as a preamp but for some the lack of a line in will be a deal breaker. I'm put off buying a preamp/DAC with no line in as I might want to plug something basic in that has only line out.



Yes. At that point it's a full on preamp and that's also something that's only served in the market by the MiniDSP flex at the moment and maybe the RME ADI-2 as far as I know. I don't think even the flex has HDMI so for that as well you're looking at a full on AVR. You could use an HDMI audio extractor with the flex though. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/minidsp-flex-review-audio-dsp.30804/

Amazon Basics 4K HDMI Extractor Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Amazon Basics 4K HDMI extractor. Member kindly purchased and drop shipped it to me. It normally costs $22.89 but was on sale for just $5!!! The case is the standard metal one for these kinds of adapters. Power is provided with a supplied USB-A...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I would also want a sub out and a high pass filter for when the sub is used, along with EQ/DSP for room correction.

Idea: "machine state" presets.

Presets that contain ALL settings. EQ profile, sub out on/off, filter settings etc., perhaps selectable whether it uses a particular input.

Once set up, that would be very convenient. All routing (for ex. Input A + EQ setting B + sub out on with freqs C) done automatically.

Downside: it would require a proper interface. Simple display and rotary encoder with pushbutton wouldn't be enough.

 

[RCS]

Thanks for your reply….I'm intrigued by your set up, could I ask if my understanding below is correct?

WiiM Pro to ZD3 (DAC only?) to Schiit Saga 2 (Pre amp) to V3 Monos to speakers…is that correct?

I only ask as I’m a recent returner to hi fi after an absence of about 40 years, back then we had a turntable, an amp and some speakers

Yes. that is correct.

Wiim Pro to ZD3 via optical cable.
ZD3 to Saga 2 via RCA cables. (Using the Saga 2 volume control instead of the ZD3 so the ZD3 is switched to bypass.)
Saga 2 to V3 Mono's via XLR cables.

I also have a CD player hooked up to the ZD3 via coax cable. The Saga 2 provides other available RCA hook ups. (Phono via Mani 2, and I could also add a subwoofer.)

 

[vimholic]

Can I use HDMI cable to connect from B660M Mortar to Fosi zd3?

And i really don't hear a difference with bypass off and on

The HDMI ARC port on the ZD3 is only compatible with TV HDMI ARC ports in stereo channel mode and not with PC graphic cards or motherboards' HDMI ports. To connect a PC to the ZD3, use the PC's USB port or connect the PC's HDMI to the TV's HDMI port (NOT ARC), then connect the TV's HDMI ARC port to the ZD3's HDMI ARC port. Additionally, the TV to ZD3 connection via SPDIF is available. If your motherboard has an SPDIF optical port, you can use the PC's optical port to connect to the ZD3's optical port. The bypass mode does not support volume control. In bypass mode, RCA or XLR output is at a fixed volume level.

I hope this helps!

 

[Mnyb]

Excellent results and priced well. Thanks for the extensive testing Amir.

I must say though, this really irks me and something I wish @Fosi Audio would take a step back from and just focus on making excellent audio products that stand on their own merit;

View attachment 408347

Fosi Audio ZD3 Fully Balanced Desktop DAC

Presents tailored DAC performance, ensuring superior audio quality for pure enjoyment with ease of use.

fosiaudio.com

I mean really, now recommending op-amp swapping based on genre? Apologies for being a little negative here in a review thread, but I feel this needs to be called out.


JSmith

And at the same time they have done the oposite and good deed on the digital side ?! One preset filter in the DAC and picked by the engineers, for proper reconstruction . None of the weird choices .

A bit puzzling , I must get me one of those Jazz OP amp's

 

[Mnyb]

Thinking about Fosi opamps genre-based recommendations… The ZD3 is actually a terribly bad design: if my next track is a different musical genre, I have to stop listening, get my toolbox, open up the ZD3, swap the opamps, re-assemble and re-connect everything before starting the next track…!!!???

I also have a few Chinese traditional music tracks for which there is no opamp recommendations: I can’t play these on the ZD3…???

Really, I shall buy a DAC that can play every musical genre with no issue and no opamp swap, rather than this very inconvenient (staying polite) ZD3… I changed my rating to “Poor”.

I think you can listen to both Jazz at the pawnshop and Nora Jones with the same OP amp