I had an abx blind listening session (20 participants more or less) between Hegel 390 and a cheap topping ... and no one can identify any amp. They sounded the same playing monitor audio gold 100 bookshelf speakers.
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Fosi Audio V3 Mono Amplifier Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
I had an abx blind listening session (20 participants more or less) between Hegel 390 and a cheap topping ... and no one can identify any amp. They sounded the same playing monitor audio gold 100 bookshelf speakers.
Its always hard to notice difference in a blind test, it require a lot of difference for you in order to notice it, you can even fail to notice difference in speakers. If they are simular voiced.
But i can gurantee you the Hegel h390 outperms Fosi v3 monos with ease specially on higher volumes and yes that would be noticable simple because the Hegel has so much more power,
And the one proplem v3 monos has they get really hot if you play on high volumes for longer periods and they are not going to last for many years if you push them loud on daily basis which is not going to be an issue with Hegel h390 even on demanding speaker loads.
It would proaply be much harder if you campare 2 simular powered amplifiers like ex Hegel h390 and rotel michi x3.
The v3 monos is really good for what they cost and i can’t deny that.
But its not even close to Hegel h390 in terms of perfomence, the v3 monos was to weak to power b&w 702 s2 that i tried with them at first,
And its not good enough for something like Arendal 1528 monitor 8 either, they need so much more power to perform at their best.
I enjoy my time with v3 monos, but i was missing that high perfomence i got from Hegel h390
At high volumes, gladly i got Hegel h390 a few years ago on big sale so got a very big discount on it. For full price it would be a bit of hard pillow to swallow to spend that full amount what it cost.
In my opinion for my own preferences Fosi v3 mono was not good enough to play at my reference levels and i did not expect to either, it would be very unreasonable given their pricetag.
Perfomence a side like i mention earlier, Fosi v3 monos is not ideal either for my room given how much cables there will be laying around from 4 different units. While on the Hegel i just have one. And that alone is worth a lot for me.
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But abx blind listening guarantees that there are no mental bias in the listening experience ... that´s why is difficult to find differences, because they doesn't exists.
People with high background on the topic worked hard to get the methodology, excuse me but i choose to believe in science.
Also the measurements shows that both amplifiers are transparent to the signal, so unless you're out of power, they will sound the same.
Talisman
Major Contributor
But what does this have to do with anything?
They're not DACs, he's talking, and he's repeated it several times, about power, and the Hegel H390 has a ton of watts, 250 into 8 ohms, which is more than double the FOSi. It's entirely plausible that when the FOSi hits the fan, the Hegel will continue to pump out watts without breaking a sweat. Furthermore, the V3 stereo suffers from varying
high-frequency response with speaker impedance, so it's by no means certain that it's indistinguishable from a class AB design without load bias, and it depends greatly on the speaker used and the age of the listener.
Yes, if the user does actually play at the volumes beyond the power limits of one of the units being compared, that is an objective difference even without proper A/B testing.
Where subjective opinions must be discounted, is if the user thinks that massive headroom makes an audible difference, even when only they only ever use half the capacity of the lower power unit.
Where subjective opinions must be discounted, is if the user thinks that massive headroom makes an audible difference, even when only they only ever use half the capacity of the lower power unit.
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1 - Fosi v3 mono isn't load dependent.
2 - 200 watts are only 3dB over 100 watts.
3 - I don't know if the Fosi is underpowered , because the user only talks about subjective impressions, not room size, listening distance, SPL he uses, etc.
This have some sense now? I still don't know if he's talking about something real . . . . the experience I mentioned was. Arguments comes from brains, not from high blood pressure.
I just told you that the Fosi was not powerful enough. Thats not subjective bias thats me being objective. It just dosent work with speaker like Arendal 1528 monitor 8 if you want to reach the spl they are cabable off. You need a lot more power to reach that,
Fosi is no meant to be use to speakers like that.
Thats why more beefy amplifier excist, we have different needs.
And you cant either run the Fosi at high power consistantly they will break down because of the heat. They are cheap for a good reason.
If you look at most people running Fosi amplifiers they use mostly cheap less demanding speakers. Most people running a speaker like Arendal 1528 series uses more powerful amplifiers.
I know you told me... but is your subjective impression. If you want the truth, you need to do some easy math, that's what I'm asking for.
If you don't want the truth and instead want to stay with your opinion (and the opinion of many others , that means also nothing for facts) , it's OK, but don't try to "sell me" the truth based on subjective impressions. Millions of flies cannot be wrong, garbage is delicious.
Talisman
Major Contributor
This discussion is ridiculous; these attitudes are why other forums consider us a sect of fanatics.
We're talking about a class AB amplifier that delivers 250 watts per channel at 8 ohms. It has nothing to do with the 3 dB maximum continuous output. It's about the compression of the waveform when an amplifier starts clipping versus one that still delivers a full, perfectly sine waveform. If you've never heard an amplifier start to harden near clipping, you haven't tried many systems... There's no need to request a "blind comparison" unless you like the smell of melted electronics.
Well it always an opinion because we have different preferences, but lack of power is something you will notice and thats what i noticed with v3 monos, even Erin audio corner even said its more good for nearfield setup in a smaller room. And he also Said he prefered amplifiers with 400-500 watts into 4 ohms and i have to agree about that. Headroom is key,
And measurements on Fosi v3 monos impresses for the money but the ratings is just short term, and they can’t push out that power consistantly.
Hegel have about 3 times more power down to 2 ohms.
In my case i noticed the Fosi sounded strained when you pushed them Hegel sounds far more effortless under heavy load at high volumes.
Stuff like that you will easily notice.
V3 monos is not good enough for me. I want more power. And gladly i dont have to limit my self when i use the Hegel that puts out like 500 watts into 4 ohms.
The Fosi is great for those people with smaller budgets and might want to spend the extra on the speakers.
But if you have the budget you not going to buy that cheap amps. Hegel h390 is in a completly different level than Fosi audio v3 mono.
Is it as good value no. But its still way better as an amplifier.
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i can't see any rational proof that Fosi v3 are underpowered on the use case mentioned and i have a scientific proof that other "toy" amplifier totally embarrased the hegel ... with MA Gold 100 speakers.
I understand that the goal won't be to search for the concrete facts with the Arendal speakers (a pity, could be valuable for the topic) and we end with only subjective opinions, so, i close my comments on that.
I understand that the goal won't be to search for the concrete facts with the Arendal speakers (a pity, could be valuable for the topic) and we end with only subjective opinions, so, i close my comments on that.
girtab
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you can't just take everything you see in these reviews and take it at face value. Amir didn't measure the max power output at bass frequencies (40hz i think it was) for the v3 mono like he did for other amps. For such a small class D amp, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to see a substantial decrease in power at low frequencies when driving it to its max output levels which you have to for such demanding speakers.
And even if it did measure the exact same as the amp is rated for, running an amp at full output all the time is not something you should do, especially given its longevity and heat issues. You could even damage your speakers using it. For Ande3200, a reliable AB is by far more adequate
Well you are wrong as always. There no world where those small amps with limited power embrassed the Hegel, its the other way around actully. I spent enough time with both to know the Hegel is the superior amplifier, with Fosi v3 monos i had to limit my listening level to more than i would like. With the Hegel i dont have to worry about the volume at all i just listen.
And now you saying things for your own view, and have no Idea how loud i listen.
You have no proof you can just make that blind test up to downsize the Hegel, its just words with no evidence behind it.
Fosi v3 monos might be enough for you but its not for me, you might listen at musch lower volumes than i do.
I consistantly listen pretty loud on a daily basis. So having an amplifier with a good amount of headroom is a good thing, why limit yourself and risking running out of steam if you dont have to and end up risking damaging the speakers in the process.
The v3 monos dosent have a lot of power its like 170-180 watts into 4 ohms that wont get you much headroom in larger room.
It feels to me you trying defend those amplifiers and think thats enough for everyone when its in reality is not.
Monitor gold 100 is not high output speakers like Arendal 1528 monitor 8, so you might have find the limit on the speakers rather than the amplifiers and thats why you did not notice a difference.
Arendal will put the amplifiers much more to the test thanks to its massive spl output. If you want to know what those speakers can do you need 400-500 watts into 4 ohms or more.
Obviously, but I doubt anyone would compare the two, if "performance" refers to their voltage/current outputs?
That may be true for your use case, but it may be quite adequate for others, B&W's specs say: 30W - 300W into 8Ω on unclipped programme power. If one normally listen to no more than 5-10 dB below reference level and sits within 3 meters (just an example), a pair of those tiny monoblock would be fine.
If one listens at reference level, then the Hegel would not be that great either, as often pointed out, going from an amp rated 250 W vs 125 W means for the same output level performance, all else being equal, the users just have to turn the volume down by 3 dB, not that big a difference to some extent.
Again, I wouldn't compare the Hegel to the tiny amp, just feel that forum posts seem to often overlook the important fact to remember is, when comparing available amp outputs, it is necessary to consider the use case in terms of not only speaker sensitivity specs, impedance/phase angle specs, but also distance and the desired SPL, the latter two are important because doubling the distance require 6 dB higher output power and listening at 6 dB louder requires 4X more output. On money, weight, real estate no object basis then it doesn't matter, just grab, or recommend to those who ask, a high output amp such as those rated 350W/600 W 8/4 ohms minimum, as those amps should be able to meet the needs of probably 90% of forum members such as ASR's use cases.
Like i mention earlier Fosi v3 mono was not enough for me and its not something i could live with other than short period of time.Obviously, but I doubt anyone would compare the two, if "performance" refers to their voltage/current outputs?
That may be true for your use case, but it may be quite adequate for others, B&W's specs say: 30W - 300W into 8Ω on unclipped programme power. If one normally listen to no more than 5-10 dB below reference level and sits within 3 meters (just an example), a pair of those tiny monoblock would be fine.
If one listens at reference level, then the Hegel would not be that great either, as often pointed out, going from an amp rated 250 W vs 125 W means for the same output level performance, all else being equal, the users just have to turn the volume down by 3 dB, not that big a difference to some extent.
Again, I wouldn't compare the Hegel to the tiny amp, just feel that forum posts seem to often overlook the important fact to remember is, when comparing available amp outputs, it is necessary to consider the use case in terms of not only speaker sensitivity specs, impedance/phase angle specs, but also distance and the desired SPL, the latter two are important because doubling the distance require 6 dB higher output power and listening at 6 dB louder requires 4X more output. On money, weight, real estate no object basis then it doesn't matter, just grab, or recommend to those who ask, a high output amp such as those rated 350W/600 W 8/4 ohms minimum, as those amps should be able to meet the needs of probably 90% of forum members such as ASR's use cases.
We all have different needs. And i demand more than most people.
I find it amusing that you are demanding that other members do a blind test and that you haven't done the test yourself. You should probably not go on and on and on about something you don't have hard facts about to back it up. You aren't taking obvious variables into consideration, mainly headroom. Posting once to begin a discussion is one thing, but telling everyone they are wrong multiple times, without doing the test, or at least similar test yourself, is entirely different.
i'm the only one that made an ABX blind listening test with the hegel 360 ... and what? i don't do any test? and you cannot say the listening position distance, room size and spl you listen to check if you need more than Fosi power?
i said i won't talk anymore about this, but it's too much really. Please, go serious or forget about it.
i said i won't talk anymore about this, but it's too much really. Please, go serious or forget about it.
Be serious or forget about this.
Talisman
Major Contributor
I really think you should stop, the point has been explained to you several times but you are turning a deaf ear, we are all talking seriously here, except you with your childish provocations about blind tests at clipping volumes.
Now I'll ignore you because I'm tired of these provocations
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