Fosi Audio Box X5 Phono Preamp Review

[StevenSGT98]

Of course, the X5 is to be considered perfect in the given context, except for noise with moving magnet pickups.But again, to generally accuse people of being not-scientific due to their subjective approach isn't quite to the point.

Even that tiny bit of noise goes away once the needle hits the wax. Subjective? If it can’t be heard once the coils are loaded, is it relevant? IIRC testing has been done without cartridge, for some with the cartridge in a box, but has it been tested on the arm on the wax? Then all sorts of variable come into play, as they would in the wild. But of course this invalidates the test. So it can be tested to a point, then subjective factors come into force.

I only say this to make a point. Conditions change, results change. Vinyl is analog and is faulty. It’s amazing it does what it does. I enjoy it for what it is, warts and all.

 

[Heinrich]

Even that tiny bit of noise goes away once the needle hits the wax. Subjective?

Sure, as I said, don't accuse people to be unscientific only because they like to propagate subjective assessment. In phono, I'm afraid, this is the only way - the measurements' outcome is too frigthening. You cannot correlate for example the numbers for harmonic distortion to the human hearing with any confidence, so far off they are. There's always somthing else that might come to ear in complicated ways. So far it's guesswork.

But I acknowledge the medium as viable, I've got my own platter ;-)

On noise, that's another story, covered by other posts already.

 

[mike70]

I think we're out of the real practical scope of the measurements.

The ears listen to the acoustical event (I mean, electronics + speakers+room), not to the electronic component as a black box.

Measurements allows you to compare that black box engineering with the others, you can decide to buy an "equivalent" (or better ) component with less money, as an example.

But the final result (and that's what ends in the ears) will be more influenced by other factors. So, the objective point of view (very important as it is) not always refers to the final result.

 

[guy48065]

This talk of vinyl's horrible shortcomings reminds me of another remarkable ability of the ear/brain mechanism:
Discrimination.
I can easily "tune out" clicks & pops and enjoy the music behind it. Seems like allot of people are unable to hear beyond the surface noise. I wonder if they can see out a dirty window, or do they focus only on the dirt?

 

[phoenixsong]

This talk of vinyl's horrible shortcomings reminds me of another remarkable ability of the ear/brain mechanism:
Discrimination.
I can easily "tune out" clicks & pops and enjoy the music behind it. Seems like allot of people are unable to hear beyond the surface noise. I wonder if they can see out a dirty window, or do they focus only on the dirt?

Dunno man, to me it's like switching from 1080p to 360p on Youtube. Very disturbingly obvious and doesn't make sense

 

[Heinrich]

... or do they focus only on the dirt?

... like switching from 1080p to 360p on Youtube. Very disturbingly obvious and doesn't make sense

Does it make sense to subjectively evaluate vinyl playback, instead of just trusting measurements? Yes.

When it comes to the evaluation of one phono pro versus the other, still, think of side effects of overload from klicks and pops, disc wobble. And again, if data alone shows big margin already, the subjective evaluation may be skipped happily.

Because do not forget: playback is for pleasure. It is possible!

 

[phoenixsong]

Does it make sense to subjectively evaluate vinyl playback, instead of just trusting measurements? Yes.

When it comes to the evaluation of one phono pro versus the other, still, think of side effects of overload from klicks and pops, disc wobble. And again, if data alone shows big margin already, the subjective evaluation may be skipped happily.

Because do not forget: playback is for pleasure. It is possible!

It may be so- yet I cannot lie to myself upon hearing the poignant difference recently

 

[mike70]

in my system, with decent records ... i can't find a big difference between CDs an LPs.
i don't listen to noise or clicks and pops, even many people says to me "it's the turntable or the cd player right now?"

so, i listen to vinyl and very happy with it.

 

[StevenSGT98]

in my system, with decent records ... i can't find a big difference between CDs an LPs.
i don't listen to noise or clicks and pops, even many people says to me "it's the turntable or the cd player right now?"

so, i listen to vinyl and very happy with it.

But vinyl is supposed to sound better than CD.

Seriously, I bought new vinyl last night and aside from an infrequent barely audible artifact, the sound was quite nice. Extremely comparable to a transparent digital source. This is on a Denon DP-45f with a AT440-ml/b thru a Wiim Ultra on one system and a Denon DP45-f with a AT VM95ml and a Fosi x-5 on another.

I have 2 identical tables. One I had, and the other I sought out and recapped and recalibrated the electronics throughout. Both needed cds eyes for the auto sensor. Nice tables.

 

[Heinrich]

But vinyl is supposed to sound better than CD.

How do you say, "noh"? It is another experience, and even besides the handling, to actively ignore the faults may be a plus for the focus.

Me was more onto the many disturbances, justifying deliberately subjective evaluation of a severely flawed medium. C'mon, if it were new, what would you say: interesting? It is for scientific reasons. First you construct a sense of faults. Then, in contrast, how do people sense the spirit of music in relentless presence of that flaws?

If one grew up with digital, we elder folks may be seen as the rough guys, right? We've got it, you wimps

 

[StevenSGT98]

How do you say, "noh"? It is another experience, and even besides the handling, to actively ignore the faults may be a plus for the focus.

Me was more onto the many disturbances, justifying deliberately subjective evaluation of a severely flawed medium. C'mon, if it were new, what would you say: interesting? It is for scientific reasons. First you construct a sense of faults. Then, in contrast, how do people sense the spirit of music in relentless presence of that flaws?

If one grew up with digital, we elder folks may be seen as the rough guys, right? We've got it, you wimps

I was of course being light in my comment hence the “wink” emoji in my original post. I cut my teeth on vinyl and grew up spinning tape. I still do. I picked up a hobby refurbishing decks I have a liking for Naks, but have a few others too. Tape is another medium more maligned than vinyl that can sound way better than its numbers indicate. Dolby was the worst thing to happen to cassette, but I’m getting way off topic.

Vinyl sounds just fine - when done well. The Fosi x-5 is a decent little preamp. I do not feel the need to look further at this point.

Steven

 

[mike70]

Vinyl as medium have many flaws compared to digital.
But remember, the medium capabilities is one thing and the real mastering / recording is other stuff. If your recordings have 40dB or at best 60dB DR ... what's the difference between a medium with 60db or 90dB capability?

And I can go on ... mastering for vinyl is different, so much different. Many times, that mastering cannot support the skyhigh gains / compressions you can apply on digital (for streaming sources sometimes is awful) ... so the vinyl master can sound very, very good.

What I mean? Vinyl sounds better?
No, no and no (even sometimes ... yes, it can)
But ... It isn't that simple, and with decent / clean records and a decent cartridge you can have a hell of sound quality. Even you don't like the format, and it's ok. But we're talking about arguments / facts and not on "what I like".

Digital only people, you're ok.
People that enjoy digital AND analog (as me), it's ok too.
I respect everyone.

 

[cfwotzka]

Vinyl as medium have many flaws compared to digital.
But remember, the medium capabilities is one thing and the real mastering / recording is other stuff. If your recordings have 40dB or at best 60dB DR ... what's the difference between a medium with 60db or 90dB capability?

And I can go on ... mastering for vinyl is different, so much different. Many times, that mastering cannot support the skyhigh gains / compressions you can apply on digital (for streaming sources sometimes is awful) ... so the vinyl master can sound very, very good.

What I mean? Vinyl sounds better?
No, no and no (even sometimes ... yes, it can)
But ... It isn't that simple, and with decent / clean records and a decent cartridge you can have a hell of sound quality. Even you don't like the format, and it's ok. But we're talking about arguments / facts and not on "what I like".

Digital only people, you're ok.
People that enjoy digital AND analog (as me), it's ok too.
I respect everyone.

can't agree more. decent Vinyl, decent Turntable, decent pickup, decent phono amp...heaven

 

[cfwotzka]

I listen digital as well as vinly and I expect this mediums to sound different and enjoy both

 

[restorer-john]

So,

You're placing more trust in human hearing than in precise measurement equipment.
You're also relying on others' perceptions, assuming they match your own.
And you trust them to describe their experiences objectively.

I’m having a hard time seeing how this aligns with "learning from measurements," as it comes across as more of a typical subjective approach.

To me, this approach feels misleading, and it seems disingenuous to claim you're "learning from measurements" when your actions suggest otherwise.

His method is fine for him. He uses measurements and reviews to weed out the products that may interest him. Then he uses his ears/brain as the final arbiter when comparing the finalists.

Being open to preference and choosing based on that preference is perfectly valid.

Like when finalise your choice of car based on a whole lot of sensible thoughts, only to pick the colour based on personal preference.

 

[guy48065]

His method is fine for him. He uses measurements and reviews to weed out the products that may interest him. Then he uses his ears/brain as the final arbiter when comparing the finalists.

Being open to preference and choosing based on that preference is perfectly valid.

Like when finalise your choice of car based on a whole lot of sensible thoughts, only to pick the colour based on personal preference.

It blows my mind there are so many who argue against listening to a piece of audio gear before buying.

 

[StevenSGT98]

It’s getting harder to audition gear. And the places that do exist want to sell you the highest priced stuff they have. Very hard to get any kind of objective listening in at all.

 

[cfwotzka]

It’s getting harder to audition gear. And the places that do exist want to sell you the highest priced stuff they have. Very hard to get any kind of objective listening in at all.

lucky we are that excellent gear, to a growing extend, is affordable nowadays

 

[Old_School_Brad]

It blows my mind there are so many who argue against listening to a piece of audio gear before buying.

I’m not against listening.
To clarify; I'm saying that when it comes to evaluating sound quality, measurement equipment is far, far more accurate than human ears, particularly for electronics. For speakers in your room, personal taste and listening matter, but for electronic components, objective measurements are more reliable. Unless the electronics are intentionally and audibly coloring the sound, in which case subjective preference becomes relevant again.

 

[mike70]

I listen digital as well as vinly and I expect this mediums to sound different and enjoy both

Yes, it's different, I think basically for the cartridge distortions and ... the mastering.

But, in my experience, when you go up in the ladder (high quality pressings and flat response cartridges) ... vinyl sounds more close to digital.

Click and pops are stuff from your grandpa analog system ... a decent manual or machine cleaning system ... and it's almost nothing about it. Only when you get old and damaged records.