For the Cooks: Misen Non Stick Carbon Steel Pan?

[mhardy6647]

Supposedly, a proprietary nitriding process conveys the beneficial non-stick properties.

... and we know that this is safe; not a teratogen or toxic, or carcinogenic? No environmental ramifications?

Well-seasoned cast iron is (still) pretty hard to beat.
The seasoning isn't oil per se any more -- after it's been baked and polymerized.

Mrs. H stir-fried vegetables, tofu & chicken in our forty-plus year old steel wok tonight and it was excellent and that wok is never hard to clean. I am the one who cleans it, so I speak with veracity.

 

[PatentLawyer]

I don't typically recommend random YouTube videos, but this one features a series of fairly detailed and comparative tests and I think is quite informative.

The comments on the video do make mention of other reviews and user experiences saying its nonstick qualities are reduced after a while. It's unclear what that's about, but it appears that not seasoning this pan seems to result in its retaining its nonstick qualities better than trying to season it. The reviewer also responds to one comment saying he's been using it for about 2 months (as of the date the video was posted) and it's still working well for him.

At any rate, he shows and describes the tests he ran and compares them to Misen's claims, so you can watch and decide for yourself.

(I have no affiliation with the YouTuber or Misen and I don't own this pan.)

Thanks! I’ve watched this one; along with some other videos, the truth is evasive!!

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Well-seasoned cast iron is (still) pretty hard to beat.

too heavy to be practical for many cooks

 

[TimF]

I got a blue carbon steel wok that is fine and I like it. I also got a blue carbon steel pan and it is still breaking in. I'm not certain I will stick with using it. I will give it more time.

 

[Fahzz]

My own theory is that seasoning is gunk. LOL

 

[mhardy6647]

I'm not certain I will stick with using it.

In the context of this thread -- I see what you did there.

 

[levimax]

I have a well seasoned cast iron pan, a well seasoned carbon steel pan, some all clad pans, some La creset enameled cast iron pans, and some teflon pans. They all work well for their intended use and are not interchangeable. For omelets cooking at low temps you can't beat a teflon pan. Trying to deglaze a cast iron pan for a sauce is not a good idea but for searing they can't be beat. Horses for courses.

 

[JeffGB]

I have a few pans made of carbon steel, some cast iron, and an all-clad stainless pan. I also have a wok, which I'm mentioning because it is also made with nitrided carbon steel. They are carbon steel, heated to around 1000f while in the presence of nitrogen to bond the nitrogen to the outer layer of the steel which creates iron nitrides that are hard, and not sensitive to rusting etc. I've never tried to use my wok before I cleaned and seasoned it a bit, but it has been really durable. I use steel tools when woking and I'm not gentle on the pan but it's standing up great. There may be many other factors that I am unaware of but the pan seems quite interesting. I should add that it is working very much like a non-stick pan, but most carbon steel, used correctly is quite non-stick.

 

[pablolie]

I have had my Scanpans for way over 10 years, and they look nearly new. I never felt the need to go over medium high (kinda 75% tops, but mostly less) and zero issues. Completely suffices for the prized paella socarrat, only it comes off without scratching the hell out of the paella pan ... Meat I typically cook sous vide and put grill marks with an indoor grill from Zojirushi that gets *seriously* hot. I also have stainless steel stuff, but don't use it often.
Good non-stick is totally safe if you know what you're doing. Several brands do that very capably.

 

[kemmler3D]

My own theory is that seasoning is gunk. LOL

Some people with "seasoned" pans just let gunk accumulate on them, your theory is not entirely without merit. I have a friend who mentioned never cleaning his cast iron pan to preserve "seasoning" and got offended when I reacted with opprobrium to that. But let me state clearly: cooked on gunk is not seasoning, just sometimes mistaken for it.

Actual seasoning is as @mhardy6647 says, a polymerized layer of fat that's well adhered to the bare metal of the pan. I've stripped cast iron down to bare metal and re-seasoned it a few times, and good seasoning is basically 5+ cooked-on coatings of cooking oil.

One thing I don't totally understand is how seasoning evolves with cooking. If you ever take a freshly seasoned pan out of the oven and slap an egg in there, it sticks like mad and basically ruins the seasoning. The egg seems to bond to the seasoning. This has happened to me like, 2 or 3 times.

Eggs work really well on an almost-freshly seasoned pan after you've cooked fried potatoes or bacon in there a couple times. I wonder if the polymerized fat needs to be hydrated or otherwise incorporate some stuff other than just the freshly baked oil to attain its nonstick properties?

 

[wwenze]

Bacon grease solves everything. It even comes free with bacon. Bacon solves everything. Pan fry them, oven them, microwave them. Bacon.

 

[levimax]

Some people with "seasoned" pans just let gunk accumulate on them, your theory is not entirely without merit. I have a friend who mentioned never cleaning his cast iron pan to preserve "seasoning" and got offended when I reacted with opprobrium to that. But let me state clearly: cooked on gunk is not seasoning, just sometimes mistaken for it.

Actual seasoning is as @mhardy6647 says, a polymerized layer of fat that's well adhered to the bare metal of the pan. I've stripped cast iron down to bare metal and re-seasoned it a few times, and good seasoning is basically 5+ cooked-on coatings of cooking oil.

One thing I don't totally understand is how seasoning evolves with cooking. If you ever take a freshly seasoned pan out of the oven and slap an egg in there, it sticks like mad and basically ruins the seasoning. The egg seems to bond to the seasoning. This has happened to me like, 2 or 3 times.

Eggs work really well on an almost-freshly seasoned pan after you've cooked fried potatoes or bacon in there a couple times. I wonder if the polymerized fat needs to be hydrated or otherwise incorporate some stuff other than just the freshly baked oil to attain its nonstick properties?

I have a cast iron pan that has only been washed with water and then heated until smoking hot to dry for 30+ years. The longer you use one the better it gets. The surface becomes both non-stick and hard as nails. Stripping it down to bare metal would be a sin.

 

[respice finem]

But who knows what the residue may have become chemically - and some of it will get into food.
With so much "pan science" out there, someone should analyze it. Maybe a PSR is needed (pan science review)

 

[Keith_W]

The egg seems to bond to the seasoning.

This cast iron wok is about 90 years old. It was a gift from my mother-in-law. It was used by her mother to cook for my MIL, and my MIL used it to cook for my wife. It was the most beautiful gift, and I treasure it above all my other cookware. Look at the seasoning on this thing.

To use it, Chinese style: heat it up until it starts to smoke - it heats up really quickly on a wok burner, but more slowly on my indoor stove. Turn off the flame and pass cold oil, then drain off the excess. Turn the flame back on. When the oil starts smoking, crack an egg in there. It won't stick.

The problem is that it's only suitable for high heat egg cooking. If you need gentle heat, like for cooking scrambled eggs or an omelette, you still need a non-stick pan.

 

[kemmler3D]

I have a cast iron pan that has only been washed with water and then heated until smoking hot to dry for 30+ years. The longer you use one the better it gets. The surface becomes both non-stick and hard as nails. Stripping it down to bare metal would be a sin.

I've got pans with different ages of seasoning ranging to several years, but when I've bought old pans needing restoration or damaged the seasoning and needed to restore it, I've started from scratch. It makes you realize that age of seasoning isn't really that special, but aside from this I haven't seen anyone explain this effect with 100% fresh seasoning.

 

[wwenze]

First task for AudioPanReview: Which seasoning stops eggs from sticking best: 1) Butter, 2) Cooking oil, 3) Bacon grease

 

[JeffS7444]

Will be curious how these "pan" out

But when I think of carbon steel cookware, I associate it with fairly thin-gauge metal, great for heating quickly, not so much if you want thermal mass. It also lacks the thermal conductivity of aluminum or copper.

I learn much from watching America's Test Kitchen videos, and one technique (from ATC?) which really, uh, stuck with me, is to gauge the heat of the cookware by sprinkling a little water on it. When it's hot enough that water forms beads which dance on the surface, it's pretty non-stick. And when cooking eggs, I start with room-temperature eggs. If I need to control the heat, I raise the pan from the flame or burner.

For cleanup, I've become a fan of scrubbers which are made of stainless steel shavings: They actually scratch less, and never seem to wear out.

 

[BlackTalon]

Tell your wife that oatmeal lifts off like magic if the pan is soaked for a few hours.

She knows. But she rarely soaks anything when she puts it in the sink. I usually add water when I walk by and see classes, dishes, pans, etc. that were put in the sink with no added water. She also knows you can put water in the pan and heat it up, and it will clean easily. She's just not interested in taking those 10 second steps that would ultimately save time. With the non-stick stuff, she can clean it easily enough.

We have some of just about every type of cookware. She tends to revert, however, to the items that make me cringe. She does it mainly out of nostalgia -- it's the worst after she returns from visiting her mom overseas.

 

[Keith_W]

Will be curious how these "pan" out

But when I think of carbon steel cookware, I associate it with fairly thin-gauge metal, great for heating quickly, not so much if you want thermal mass. It also lacks the thermal conductivity of aluminum or copper.

Exactly. Because it's (1) thin and (2) has poor thermal conductivity, carbon steel pans tend to form hot spots. This is very bad for certain types of cooking - e.g. you do NOT want to fry a steak on a carbon steel pan, unless you can keep the steak in the hot spot. The food needs to be kept moving, so it's good for stir-fries.

Watch this video to see how this Chinese chef uses a carbon steel wok to make fried rice. There are a few points of detail to note:

- mise en place is ready before he starts cooking. Wok cooking is hot and fast, so everything needs to be ready to go.
- the pan is preheated with no oil. Then cold oil is put into the pan. See how fast the oil heats up because of that powerful wok burner.
- the protein is deep fried briefly before it is added to the dish later. This technique is known as "passing through" (Chinese 走油, "jau yau"). It improves texture by removing excess moisture.
- watch the heat control. He turns up/down the heat, likely with a foot pedal. The burner centres heat in the middle of the wok. Because it's carbon steel, the centre of the wok is very hot, and the sides are relatively cool. You don't want food sitting in the centre of the wok for too long. See how he keeps the food moving when he turns the burner up.

Sometimes you do want the burnt bits, so you leave food sitting in the centre for longer. Watch this guy fry flat noodles. He is using a different type of burner, this time the flames shoot up the side of the pan. When I was a kid, most of the guys used charcoal. With one hand they would stir-fry the noodles with a ladle, with the other hand they held a fan to control the heat of the fire.

Anyway, the point is: with carbon steel cookware, you need to have the heat distribution that you want, the correct cooking technique, and it's not suitable for certain types of cooking. It's great for frying rice and noodles, but you do not want to fry a steak using this method.

I learn much from watching America's Test Kitchen videos, and one technique (from ATC?) which really, uh, stuck with me, is to gauge the heat of the cookware by sprinkling a little water on it. When it's hot enough that water forms beads which dance on the surface, it's pretty non-stick.

Liedenfrost effect

 

[wwenze]

Will be curious how these "pan" out

But when I think of carbon steel cookware, I associate it with fairly thin-gauge metal, great for heating quickly, not so much if you want thermal mass. It also lacks the thermal conductivity of aluminum or copper.

I learn much from watching America's Test Kitchen videos, and one technique (from ATC?) which really, uh, stuck with me, is to gauge the heat of the cookware by sprinkling a little water on it. When it's hot enough that water forms beads which dance on the surface, it's pretty non-stick. And when cooking eggs, I start with room-temperature eggs. If I need to control the heat, I raise the pan from the flame or burner.

For cleanup, I've become a fan of scrubbers which are made of stainless steel shavings: They actually scratch less, and never seem to wear out.

Leidenfrost point. The temperature of your pan at that point is at least 193°C or higher based on other material factors. Should not be attempted with non-stick pans. Ok with steel/iron.