For the Cooks: Misen Non Stick Carbon Steel Pan?

[PatentLawyer]

Has anyone purchased this pan from Misen: https://misen.com/products/carbon-nonstick-pan?variant=42372534796369 ? There was tons of buzz on kickstarter and Youtube as it seemed to promise non-stick performance without Teflon (and the PFAS concerns that come with that). Supposedly, a proprietary nitriding process conveys the beneficial non-stick properties. Initial reviews were positive, but a controversy is brewing on YouTube among pan testers, suggesting that the non-stick performance is the product of a questionable initial coating on the pan, and that non-stick performance disappears after a few cooks. Even worse, some reviewers are saying that it doesn't hold a seasoning like a regular carbon steel pan, so maybe it's the worst of all worlds.

If have you used this pan, I'm interested in your feedback. In the meantime, I am using my old fashioned carbon steel, cast iron, and multi-ply stainless steel pans.

 

[kemmler3D]

Haven't tried the pan but will follow with interest. I also found their pitch interesting, but similarly I'm getting along fine with cast iron and stainless, so don't really need a new pan regardless of how nonstick it is.

I've been avoiding Teflon or any fluorine based coating for years... When I heard that pet birds will die if you accidentally overheat one, it no longer seemed even remotely prudent to use them.


Fwiw the misen stainless stuff seems good, happy with it for the past few years.

 

[respice finem]

I haen't tried either, but it sounds like a thing known to me from Blaser rifles (titanium nitriding):

Nitriding - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This stuff is very, very hard. Scrape it off? Not with kitchen stuff.

 

[PatentLawyer]

We too have been avoiding nonstick for some time but I confess for eggs, I sometimes wish I didn't have to say a small prayer before swirling my pan. Well seasoned carbon steel works very well but it has its shortcomings in terms of maintenance and preservation of that seasoning. I'm hoping for a silver bullet, but none yet.

 

[respice finem]

I use teflon pans for maybe 30 years, I'm still alive and well. PTFE is in itself inert, so it will generally exit the body via feces.
But. "God only knows" what was used to make it stick to the metal. So my first procedure with a new pan is, ventilation to the max, and frying some oil, discarding it, and cleaning the pan in a dishwasher. It doesn't get scraped off either, if you use soft wood or silicone tools.

 

[kemmler3D]

I use teflon pans for maybe 30 years, I'm still alive and well. PTFE is in itself inert, so it will generally exit the body via feces.
But. "God only knows" what was used to make it stick to the metal. So my first procedure with a new pan is, ventilation to the max, and frying some oil, discarding it, and cleaning the pan in a dishwasher. It doesn't get scraped off either, if you use soft wood or silicone tools.

It's inert but only stable up to 500F or so, and it breaks down into potentially carcinogenic stuff, apparently. To me 500F is not far enough from normal cooking temperature to consider it a safe bet. Heating a pan one minute too long while I chop onions is enough to blow right past that.

 

[617]

Haven't tried this but own their large stainless pan, which has become the #1 pan in my household. We use a small nonstick for eggs and nothing else.

 

[respice finem]

It's inert but only stable up to 500F or so, and it breaks down into potentially carcinogenic stuff, apparently. To me 500F is not far enough from normal cooking temperature to consider it a safe bet. Heating a pan one minute too long while I chop onions is enough to blow right past that.

TW, at 500F (260 °C) whatever you fry, will produce way more carcinogens, trans fats, etc... Life is deadly with time

 

[Cbdb2]

Ok its really hard, that has nothing to do with sticking.

 

[BlackTalon]

There's a pretty good thread on Kitchen Knife Forums, that had a couple good updates within the last day or so:

Did anyone else order the misen "non stick" carbon steel pan ?

Eggs aren't the best , but I also don't stress it . They seem to have an initial "stick" but give them a minute and a nudge , and they break right free , no tearing or breaking. I use it for eggs every other day or so , and I like my eggs very runny so they would stick in a heart beat if they...

www.kitchenknifeforums.com

I bought some, and have had positive results so far. I abhor the various non-stick skillets and pans my wife occasionally buys, as the coating scratch and fail in far too short a time. She avoids the carbon steel and cast iron skillets due to the weight. The Misens have been good so far -- I made pancakes with no butter/ oil in the pan, and they cooked nicely and easily slid around. I used a tiny bit of oil for some eggs (for flavor), and the eggs easily moved around. And I got good sears on some pork and chicken.

Weight is quite a bit less less than our carbon steel and cast iron skillets/ pans. Clean-up is easy. The lowish sides may be a pro or a con depending on what you are cooking, but they have not presented an issue for me, and make it easier to use a spatula. But since it's easy to flip the food a spatula isn't needed unless you have multiple items in the pan that need to be flipped one at a time.

 

[JohnnyNG]

Not really in the market for a new non-stick but this one does look interesting. Only Misen I have is the 5.5 QT braiser which is a beast to manhandle in the sink but is an awesome pan.

 

[BlackTalon]

We lived together blissfully for 12+ years until my wife decided she needed non-stick cookware in her life... I attribute it to her cooking oatmeal every morning, and having to work a bit to scrub the pot. But it spread from one small pot to a collection of skillets, pans and baking trays. I hate the stuff with a passion, and with cast iron skillets in several sizes (with some being antique and smooth as can be), and a few different sizes/ profiles of carbon steel, there was zero reason to have any non-stick crap taking up valuable kitchen space. The Misen pans should at lest allow the expulsion of the non-stick skillets. I do not think there is a small pot option yet, unfortunately.

The latest acquired non-stick abomination is a tiny skillet (6 inch diameter?) with 2 inch high sides. What a useless piece of crap! You can't use a spat or any other utensil other than to stir -- which is what pots are for, not skillets.

 

[PatentLawyer]

There's a pretty good thread on Kitchen Knife Forums, that had a couple good updates within the last day or so:

Did anyone else order the misen "non stick" carbon steel pan ?

Eggs aren't the best , but I also don't stress it . They seem to have an initial "stick" but give them a minute and a nudge , and they break right free , no tearing or breaking. I use it for eggs every other day or so , and I like my eggs very runny so they would stick in a heart beat if they...

www.kitchenknifeforums.com

I bought some, and have had positive results so far. I abhor the various non-stick skillets and pans my wife occasionally buys, as the coating scratch and fail in far too short a time. She avoids the carbon steel and cast iron skillets due to the weight. The Misens have been good so far -- I made pancakes with no butter/ oil in the pan, and they cooked nicely and easily slid around. I used a tiny bit of oil for some eggs (for flavor), and the eggs easily moved around. And I got good sears on some pork and chicken.

Weight is quite a bit less less than our carbon steel and cast iron skillets/ pans. Clean-up is easy. The lowish sides may be a pro or a con depending on what you are cooking, but they have not presented an issue for me, and make it easier to use a spatula. But since it's easy to flip the food a spatula isn't needed unless you have multiple items in the pan that need to be flipped one at a time.

Thanks for this, I'm going to watch the thread. I'm glad the controversy is being explored; I'm not keen on dropping $100+ until this shakes out.

 

[Curvature]

I use cast iron (Oigen) and stainless steel (All Clad). Once you understand the pans there is no problem with food sticking.

 

[SKBubba]

We got rid of all non-stick a while back and got all-clad stainless. It's not foolproof and you have to learn techniques and stuff. That said, we reintroduced a Scanpan griddle, mainly for pancakes, and occasionally sandwiches like grilled cheese and patty melts and cubans.

 

[kemmler3D]

TW, at 500F (260 °C) whatever you fry, will produce way more carcinogens, trans fats, etc... Life is deadly with time

Well yes, but I TRY to stay below smoke points, and since everything good causes cancer and I want to eat good food, I need to avoid carcinogens where I can to save room for the tasty ones.

I don't normally heat anything past 450 on the stove, but accidents happen.

 

[Keith_W]

I attribute it to her cooking oatmeal every morning, and having to work a bit to scrub the pot.

Tell your wife that oatmeal lifts off like magic if the pan is soaked for a few hours.

I have only one non-stick pan at home. It's used for only one thing - cooking eggs and omelettes.

 

[tmtomh]

Has anyone purchased this pan from Misen: https://misen.com/products/carbon-nonstick-pan?variant=42372534796369 ? There was tons of buzz on kickstarter and Youtube as it seemed to promise non-stick performance without Teflon (and the PFAS concerns that come with that). Supposedly, a proprietary nitriding process conveys the beneficial non-stick properties. Initial reviews were positive, but a controversy is brewing on YouTube among pan testers, suggesting that the non-stick performance is the product of a questionable initial coating on the pan, and that non-stick performance disappears after a few cooks. Even worse, some reviewers are saying that it doesn't hold a seasoning like a regular carbon steel pan, so maybe it's the worst of all worlds.

If have you used this pan, I'm interested in your feedback. In the meantime, I am using my old fashioned carbon steel, cast iron, and multi-ply stainless steel pans.

I don't typically recommend random YouTube videos, but this one features a series of fairly detailed and comparative tests and I think is quite informative.

The comments on the video do make mention of other reviews and user experiences saying its nonstick qualities are reduced after a while. It's unclear what that's about, but it appears that not seasoning this pan seems to result in its retaining its nonstick qualities better than trying to season it. The reviewer also responds to one comment saying he's been using it for about 2 months (as of the date the video was posted) and it's still working well for him.

At any rate, he shows and describes the tests he ran and compares them to Misen's claims, so you can watch and decide for yourself.

(I have no affiliation with the YouTuber or Misen and I don't own this pan.)

 

[Fahzz]

I have never been able to get my carbon steel wok, cast iron skillet etc. to behave as a non stick pan, try as I might. I use All Clad D3 for everything and a couple of Tramontina nonsticks for eggs, fish, and pierogis.

 

[wwenze]

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

My take, if it hasn't gone through / if the mode of sales and marketing claim does not require it to go through a standard government testing e.g. JIS S 2010 then they can say whatever they like and I won't believe a word of it.

BTW Daikin Silkware coating (at least the higher star ratings, 3 stars and higher) are rated for over 1 million scratches by metal spatula tested per JIS S 2010, and the end products actually say you can use rounded edge spatulas (as opposed to the usual ones that say only non-metals are usable) so that gives you a good headroom against scratch damage.

A restaurant chef on youtube when asked on this subject reveals both iron/steel and non-stick are used: Non-stick for eggs and low temperature and easy stuff where reduction of oil is a more important health and taste benefit, and iron/steel for meat and stuff which will definitely go high temperature and you need oil and gravy anyway it doesn't matter. A lot of "but i can make steel cookware nonstick too" comes from oil you add, which includes the seasoning which is just the layer of oil sticking to the iron surface. Which unsurprisingly also falls off way easier but you're essentially replenishing it with new material every time you add oil when cooking. Yes, that black-color of the wok in the chinese restaurant is completely safe for food, if you'd believe that.

But of course you'll never achieve the same level of non-stick with iron/steel because oil sticks to it, your seasoning is also oil sticking to it, and new oil can displace that seasoning and stick whatever material to the iron. This is in contrast to coating which are oleophobic on the side facing the food.

Which then comes to the problem and paradox of trying to season a non-stick pan. If it's oleophobic, your seasoning won't stick to it.