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For $1500, buy 2 Genelec 8030C's, or 2 Genelec 8010A's + subwoofer?

txbdan

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I run my 8030Cs w/ the JBL 310S and some Dirac Live correction sprinkled on top. Sounds freaking great. I'm set for life for an office/studio setup.
 

rondo

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Reading these opinions makes me wonder just how loud people crank their monitors. I got 4 8010s for a quadrophonic home studio set up and I have to say they can get plenty loud. They have a surprising amount of low-end clarity, but they are definitely not showing me the very-low to sub-bass spectrum of my mixes. That's to be expected. This is why I came here to look for recommendations on a sub.

All this to say that a pair of 8010s and a sub would definitely be a good set-up for a home studio in my opinion. Plus it's such a portable set-up! I tend to do a lot of traveling and it's very convenient to be able to pack up my whole studio in a carry-on sized suitcase.
 

TurtlePaul

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Reading these opinions makes me wonder just how loud people crank their monitors. I got 4 8010s for a quadrophonic home studio set up and I have to say they can get plenty loud. They have a surprising amount of low-end clarity, but they are definitely not showing me the very-low to sub-bass spectrum of my mixes. That's to be expected. This is why I came here to look for recommendations on a sub.
I think you many not be considering the biggest factor regarding volume. The volume falls 6 dB with every doubling of distance. The most common use for the 8010s is desktop use at <1 meter distance. The benefit of the mid-sized and larger Genelecs isn't really that you want to blow out your ears, but rather a benefit of distance. Genelec has a speaker distance guide (https://www.genelec.com/correct-monitors). While it doesn't have the 8010, you can see that the 8320 @ 1 meter, 8330 @ 1.5 meters, 8340 @ 4 meters and 8350 @ 10 meters all have 94-95 dB long-term spl. That is the difference, the 8010 has very limited volume headroom at 3-5 meters or more. Not everyone is buying these to place on top of a mixing console. This can be further exasperated in a room where the speakers will lack boundry reinforcement by being placed away from the back wall or where all of the demension of the room are long enough to not get bass reinforcement at usable frequencies.
 

usern

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Buy 8030Cs now and then get an SVS SB-1000 or whatever later if you feel like it.
You don't really want hi-fi subwoofer for mixing, but pro audio subwoofer that has balanced stereo inputs and balanced stereo output. You connect DAC / audio interface to subwoofer. The signal gets split - low passed to subwoofer itself and high passed to speaker outputs. That way you don't add a big bump to bass frequency response, but rather extend it to lower frequencies and the overall sound should stay balanced and neutral.
 

rondo

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I think you many not be considering the biggest factor regarding volume. The volume falls 6 dB with every doubling of distance.
Fair point. My home studio is quite small and the listening distance is indeed <1 meter. I suppose I just felt someone had to speak out in favor of the 8010s. They are surprisingly good in a small home studio like mine, and once I get a sub I think I'll be totally satisfied. Incidentally I'm looking at the Genelec 7040A. I was hoping for a more affordable option, but the 7040A is the only design that seems compact enough to still allow my whole studio to be packed into a suitcase.
 

txbdan

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You also have to be aware of where the 8010s fall off and ensure your sub's crossover can accommodate it. A lot of "studio" stubs are fixed at 80Hz which might be too low for the 8010s.
 

mmi

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I have the 8010s for desktop use (tip - there is a white model). I use them at low volumes and absolutely love them. They can go uncomfortably loud, it is actually quite incredible how large they can sound. Problem is the louder you get the more you notice whats missing down low, it really starts to shelf off < 100. For non-desktop usage definitely something bigger so you can enjoy louder without the sub. I wouldn't rule out passives tho, the whole 80 range and most studio monitors are designed for nearfield listening. Having said that I have never heard any gennies besides mine so probably not the best authority.
 
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JanesJr1

JanesJr1

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Thank you all for the thoughtful responses. If it were just for the present, I'd get the 8010's for desktop and consider a sub when I get more knowledge ... I have no experience or savvy on integrating sub's into a system, much less matching one to a near-field.

However, I may need >1 meter in the future, and speaker placement would lack reinforcement from walls; the 8030's would handle that better and also spare me the sub/integration homework. Meanwhile, I'm going to try to listen to some Genelec's (it's a ways to the closest dealer).
 

Digby

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Did you see my thread here:


Not to dissuade you, but Genelec are not the the only fish in the sea. I found the bass lacking with the 8030c compared to the much cheaper Behringer B2031A. There was relatively similar sound otherwise, with the Genelec being brighter and the Behringer being somewhat flatter or duller sounding (which I prefer, especially as the volume goes up). Ultimately, there wasn't a whole lot of difference according to my ears, but the difference there was (in the bass) I considered significant.

It can't be understated that properly integrating subs is time consuming and likely expensive business, so the more capable your main speakers, the less of a problem a lack of subs will be (and likely the easier they'll be to integrate with the subs, having more bass overlap).

8010As are always going to be limited for volume in anything above a very small space, subs or no subs.

Maybe you should try and get to a studio store and listen to a variety of speakers. For playback without subs my focus would be speakers with 8" bass drivers. I sent my 8030cs back and stuck with cheap Behringer B2031As, YMMV.
 
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Yeah I like speakers like the 2031 over smaller ones + sub my self, I prefer everything coming from the same spot.

My only concern about behringers is their life span and whether the amps will fail. Plenty of reports of this but most are very old, like 10 years at least. I wish they still sold the passive model.


"I purchased a pair of 2031's second-hand on Ebay for a song (&#xc2&#xa382), as one of the speakers had a problem with the limiter (red limit light stayed on). The problem was due to a blown voltage regulator (a common 7915a), which I replaced, and fixed the issue - but I discovered a bigger problem. The voltage input to the regulators is over 40V on both of the amplifiers in the speakers, which is 5v higher than 7915 maximum rating of 35v - this is Behringer being cheap. It also means these speakers will likely not be very reliable, as the regulators are run at well over their maximum rating. in fact unless they have subsequently changed the design of the power supply, they are a time bomb. They sound OK though, for the price."
 

AnalogSteph

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Not to dissuade you, but Genelec are not the the only fish in the sea. I found the bass lacking with the 8030c compared to the much cheaper Behringer B2031A. There was relatively similar sound otherwise, with the Genelec being brighter and the Behringer being somewhat flatter or duller sounding (which I prefer, especially as the volume goes up). Ultimately, there wasn't a whole lot of difference according to my ears, but the difference there was (in the bass) I considered significant.
Well, if your B2031As conform to the measurements that @sweetchaos found posted here...

...relative woofer and tweeter levels do not seem to be set quite right straight out of the factory. At least I think it's too much of a coincidence that there is a shelving down of ~4 dB right around crossover. That's too much even for the slight tilt up that follows. Not sure what happened there, maybe the tweeter type changed or something. The treble tilt looks similar to what was addressed here via either EQ or modification. I guess having a measurement mic and the schematics on hand will not hurt when getting these.
The voltage input to the regulators is over 40V on both of the amplifiers in the speakers, which is 5v higher than 7915 maximum rating of 35v - this is Behringer being cheap.
Whoops. Usually you'd be including some dropper resistors in series to bring input voltage down under these circumstances. Considering such blatant disregard for part limitations, they actually seem to be quite reliable.
 

czt

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But 8030C will be a strong compromise for sub region below 54 Hz, even if acoustic circumstances are ideal.
 

Digby

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Yeah I like speakers like the 2031 over smaller ones + sub my self, I prefer everything coming from the same spot.

My only concern about behringers is their life span and whether the amps will fail. Plenty of reports of this but most are very old, like 10 years at least. I wish they still sold the passive model.
I have one where the bass driver is cutting in and out. I presume an amplifier problem of some kind, but yeah it is 10+ years old, so still pretty good value, I suppose.

Well, if your B2031As conform to the measurements that @sweetchaos found posted here...

...relative woofer and tweeter levels do not seem to be set quite right straight out of the factory. At least I think it's too much of a coincidence that there is a shelving down of ~4 dB right around crossover. That's too much even for the slight tilt up that follows. Not sure what happened there, maybe the tweeter type changed or something. The treble tilt looks similar to what was addressed here via either EQ or modification. I guess having a measurement mic and the schematics on hand will not hurt when getting these.
I don't have anything to measure them in room and I did suggest they lean rather more towards the dull than lively, but I still set mine at -2db on the treble. I found the -2db treble tilt on the Genelec still too bright.

Hasn't research from Harmon shown that many people prefer a sloping response speaker to a flat one? YMMV, but absent a decent mic to set up EQ, I'd rather live with a slightly dull speaker than a slightly lively one, given I find listener fatigue sets in easily for me whenever there is an excess of highs.
 

changer

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The Behringer 2031As where one of the first monitors I listened to consciously as a different kind of loudspeaker. It was when James Blake was getting big, I remember they sounded spectacular, but maybe it was just his recipe of a omnipotent sub bass with highly processed vocals on top. Anyway, they did not sound dark if I remember correctly. The shelving might just be a way to take care of the straight Directivity Index. If a waveguide spreads the HF energy evenly over the bandwidth of the tweeter, it can sound bright. Some sort of attenuation can help to balance this. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a good used pair.

Hasn't research from Harmon shown that many people prefer a sloping response speaker to a flat one? YMMV, but absent a decent mic to set up EQ, I'd rather live with a slightly dull speaker than a slightly lively one, given I find listener fatigue sets in easily for me whenever there is an excess of highs.
Yes and no. Harman's sample is too limited and concentrated around direct radiating speakers. Sloping down means also narrowing of beamwidth, which is on itself another variable one might want to control. With a waveguide that keeps the angle constant for the tweeter, the rule of a flat on axis, sloping in-room response does not seem to be correct. There would be too much overall HF energy. One can therefore attenuate the on-axis response to retain a natural reproduction of the frequency spectrum.
 

Digby

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To clarify, to me the B2031As just sound like, well, music and up to rather high levels too. I listen to a lot of older recordings of classical music and with these they can sound a bit dull (probably entirely the recording), with better, more recent productions they sound fine and well balanced. The Genelec 8030c, by comparison, was too much up top and had a little bit of what I call that "hi-fi sound" - essentially sparkling highs, that initially impress, but fatigue me quickly. This I couldn't eliminate with the -2db dip switch. (I call it the "hi-fi" sound, because invariably whenever I'd enter a proper hi-fi shop it would be the sound I was greeted with. I imagine it sells more speakers that something flatter/less exciting).
 
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I definitely think bigger woofer just wins most of the time, so the 2031's should def be considered, if you can fit them. I'm doing a mix right now with two speakers, one is 8030c other is some ****** bookshelves that just sound good. They have bigger woofer and bass adjustments are just way easier to judge. I'm also feeling that the overall level of elements compared to each other is easier to judge on the larger woofer.
 

Matias

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Or a 30 day home trial of the Kali IN-8 v2 for 800 usd a pair. Their bass goes deeper than 8030c although they are larger speakers as well.



8030C x IN-8v2.jpg
 
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Matias

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Well, if your B2031As conform to the measurements that @sweetchaos found posted here...

...relative woofer and tweeter levels do not seem to be set quite right straight out of the factory. At least I think it's too much of a coincidence that there is a shelving down of ~4 dB right around crossover. That's too much even for the slight tilt up that follows. Not sure what happened there, maybe the tweeter type changed or something. The treble tilt looks similar to what was addressed here via either EQ or modification. I guess having a measurement mic and the schematics on hand will not hurt when getting these.

Whoops. Usually you'd be including some dropper resistors in series to bring input voltage down under these circumstances. Considering such blatant disregard for part limitations, they actually seem to be quite reliable.

Would it be possible or advisable to modify this part of the circuit to ensure parts are working within their proper voltages?
 
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