Foobar preferences

[musimath]

Hi. I am new here, but a rather old man.
I am trying to tweak Foobar setup for best audio results. I use Windows 10 Pro, iFi Zen DAC v.2 and iFi Mini Amp.
I own a large collection of music, with a variety of file types: flac, DSD, ISO, MQA.
Before beginning to change the configuration my choice in Playback/Output was Wasapi (Push): Speakers (iFi (by Amr) USB Audio). I don't remember having changed something in this tab, I only added to the Library the contents of a Micro SDCard and changed some things in the layout of the program. To my surprise, when I tryed to reproduce a Flac file (192000 Hz) from the SDCard I got an error message: "Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 192000 Hz / 24-bit / 2 channels".
Trying to solve the issue I found that changing Wasapi Push to Wasapi Shared I could play the file without problem.
Anybody has an explanation? Is it not possible to use Wasapi Push?
Thank you. Regards

 

[AnalogSteph]

For starters, I generally recommend installing Foobar in portable mode, as that makes it easy to copy / backup / clone the configuration - copy the folder and you're done. Thus keeping your plugins, playlists, library filter settings, keyboard shortcuts, DSP settings, converter settings and whatnot over years is trivial.

That is a very odd error. Either some other application is already using the Zen DAC in exclusive mode at another sample rate, or exclusive mode is turned off in its device properties for some reason:


BTW, there are three possible options for WASAPI output across two different plugins:
WASAPI shared mode (default since v1.6), which travels through the entire sound stack including APOs, resampling to the specified shared output format and hard-limiter.

WASAPI exclusive mode, either
* push
or
* event-driven

This permits actually changing the hardware sample rate / bit depth and bypasses APOs and such. Event-driven output should yield lower overhead / system usage, while push is more likely to work. (Sometimes you can get event-driven mode to work reliably when adjusting hardware buffer sizes in advanced settings, but some sound drivers just don't support it properly.) It's kind of like the difference between PIO and DMA access if you remember that.

 

[American Pie]

Hi musimath,
When using Wasapi shared, Windows takes control and will resample anything you play to ONE fixed sample rate you selected in the Audio Settings before it is sent to the dac.
When using Wasapi push, the sample rate will remain 192000kHz and will be sent as is to your dac, and if your dac doesn't support that high sample rate, you can get this message. So you need to select Wasapi shared, OR you have to use a resampler plugin like SOX to downsample 192000 to 96000 or 480000 or whatever your dac CAN play.

 

[Zek]

and if your dac doesn't support that high sample rate, you can get this message. So you need to select Wasapi shared, OR you have to use a resampler plugin like SOX to downsample

OP no need anything of these because iFi Zen DAC v.2 supports all PCM files and 256DSD files.

 

[Gorgonzola]

Recently my Foobar2000 v.1.6.12 has failed playing 24/192 (FLAC) files. I'd love to know why that is and solve the problem; granted I haven't done a lot of experimenting as yet.

My computer is Windows 10; I used WASAPI Event, and feed my Topping D90 via USB. For Output Buffer length I use 1000ms, and for Output format I use 24 bit.

 

[Sokel]

Recently my Foobar2000 v.1.6.12 has failed playing 24/192 (FLAC) files. I'd love to know why that is and solve the problem; granted I haven't done a lot of experimenting as yet.

My computer is Windows 10; I used WASAPI Event, and feed my Topping D90 via USB. For Output Buffer length I use 1000ms, and for Output format I use 24 bit.

I would suggest that you update to V2.0 beta23 (32-bit as not a lot of add-ons have moved to 64-bit yet).
Pretty much everything is solved there.
I can play everything there is out there (as long as the DAC backs it up)

 

[Vincent Kars]

Wasapi Push to Wasapi Shared

Push is a bit dated, try Event style instead.
Regardless of this mode, use Exclusive if you want automatic sample rate switching.

The Well-Tempered Computer

 

[musimath]

Hi musimath,
When using Wasapi shared, Windows takes control and will resample anything you play to ONE fixed sample rate you selected in the Audio Settings before it is sent to the dac.
When using Wasapi push, the sample rate will remain 192000kHz and will be sent as is to your dac, and if your dac doesn't support that high sample rate, you can get this message. So you need to select Wasapi shared, OR you have to use a resampler plugin like SOX to downsample 192000 to 96000 or 480000 or whatever your dac CAN play.

Hi American Pie,
The maximum sampling rate of the Zen DAC is 384 kHz / 32-Bit (DoD/DSD over PCM)

 

[musimath]

Push is a bit dated, try Event style instead.
Regardless of this mode, use Exclusive if you want automatic sample rate switching.

The Well-Tempered Computer

Hi Vincent. Thank you. Event gives the same error message. Only shared works.

 

[musimath]

For starters, I generally recommend installing Foobar in portable mode, as that makes it easy to copy / backup / clone the configuration - copy the folder and you're done. Thus keeping your plugins, playlists, library filter settings, keyboard shortcuts, DSP settings, converter settings and whatnot over years is trivial.

That is a very odd error. Either some other application is already using the Zen DAC in exclusive mode at another sample rate, or exclusive mode is turned off in its device properties for some reason:


BTW, there are three possible options for WASAPI output across two different plugins:
WASAPI shared mode (default since v1.6), which travels through the entire sound stack including APOs, resampling to the specified shared output format and hard-limiter.

WASAPI exclusive mode, either
* push
or
* event-driven

This permits actually changing the hardware sample rate / bit depth and bypasses APOs and such. Event-driven output should yield lower overhead / system usage, while push is more likely to work. (Sometimes you can get event-driven mode to work reliably when adjusting hardware buffer sizes in advanced settings, but some sound drivers just don't support it properly.) It's kind of like the difference between PIO and DMA access if you remember that.

Hi Analog Steph,
Thanks for yor answer.
1. Is it safe to install portable Foobar without uninstalling the regular version? Or perhaps if I uninstall the current version and install it again?
2. Where is this Line Properties window?
3. I am not completely sure, but I believe that I had not this problem with Wasapi Push before beginning to make changes in Foobar settings.
4. iFi Zen DAC v.2 supports all PCM files and 256DSD files.

 

[Gorgonzola]

I would suggest that you update to V2.0 beta23 (32-bit as not a lot of add-ons have moved to 64-bit yet).
Pretty much everything is solved there.
I can play everything there is out there (as long as the DAC backs it up)

Thanks for your suggestion; yes, v.1.6.12 was 64 bit.

Prior to getting your suggestion, I updated to v.1.6.16. This did not solve the problem for 24/192, nor did increasing the Output buffer. However what does seem to work was moving to WASAPI Push (from Event).

In general I have been very pleased with Foobar2000 over, maybe 15 years of use. I have tuned the interface to suit my personal preferences ...

 

[BeerBear]

When using Wasapi shared, Windows takes control and will resample anything you play to ONE fixed sample rate you selected in the Audio Settings

No, Foobar does the resampling and I don't think it's possible to leave it to Windows. You can choose the resampler in Advanced > Tools > Automatic resampling... for example: Resampler (SoX).
The SoX plugin is a good choice for this purpose, because it's very CPU efficient.

 

[Sokel]

2. Where is this Line Properties window?

Go to you PC settings > System > Sound.
On the top right should be the Sound panel option,press that and in the window that will open you will find all your sound devices.
Press the one you want (ifi here) go to advanced properties and you will see it.

 

[Sokel]

No, Foobar does the resampling and I don't think it's possible to leave it to Windows. You can choose the resampler in Advanced > Tools > Automatic resampling... for example: Resampler (SoX).
The SoX plugin is a good choice for this purpose, because it's very CPU efficient.

He's right,Windows dictate the sample rate in shared.
Choosing the resampler in such configuration will only resample the windows already resampled sound.
Choose ASIO or WASAPI exclusive if you want such a setup.

 

[musimath]

Go to you PC settings > System > Sound.
On the top right should be the Sound panel option,press that and in the window that will open you will find all your sound devices.
Press the one you want (ifi here) go to advanced properties and you will see it.

Hi AnalogSteph and Sokel. I found Line Properties, but it is called Speakers Properties because I accepted the name Speakers to the iFi DAC. I found:

Changing parameters there doesn't solve the issue: the only working option remains Wasapi Shared.

 

[BeerBear]

Windows dictate the sample rate in shared.

Windows settings dictate the sample rate, but Foobar performs the resampling, if it's required.
(This is just how Foobar behaves, many other programs leave resampling to Windows.)

 

[Sokel]

Windows settings dictate the sample rate, but Foobar performs the resampling, if it's required.
(This is just how Foobar behaves, many other programs leave resampling to Windows.)

I know that behaves like this but let's take an example:

You have a song that is 16/44.1 (like the 99% of the songs) ok?
If the windows are set to 24/96 for example that will be the first resampling.
If foobar's resampler is set to 24/192 that will be the second.
And all this for an 16/44.1 file.

Why not just use ASIO and play it as is or at least (still using ASIO which the manufacturer recommends) do only one conversion to whatever you want (if you're into that,which is useless in terms of SQ,no resampling will add information that don't exist in a file).

 

[Sokel]

Hi AnalogSteph and Sokel. I found Line Properties, but it is called Speakers Properties because I accepted the name Speakers to the iFi DAC. I found:

View attachment 263209

Changing parameters there doesn't solve the issue: the only working option remains Wasapi Shared.

Have you installed the ASIO drivers for this DAC?

 

[BeerBear]

If foobar's resampler is set to 24/192...

We're talking about Foobar's automatic resampling, as described in post #12. It doesn't have a setting for sample rate, it just follows the Windows sample rate target.

About using ASIO: the main downside is that it doesn't work with Equalizer APO or similar software. I also don't have a problem with resampling music if you use something high quality like SoX.

 

[Sokel]

We're talking about Foobar's automatic resampling, as described in post #12. It doesn't have a setting for sample rate, it just follows the Windows sample rate target.

About using ASIO: the main downside is that it doesn't work with Equalizer APO or similar software. I also don't have a problem with resampling music if you use something high quality like SoX.

So what's the point if it follows windows,the end result will be the same.
I have the old sox resamplers (mod1 and 2) where you can set a target for each "family" of freqs (44.1 and 48Khz) when I want to play with that and it works ok but I never considered them to elevate SQ and they work with ASIO.
I also play with EQ but I only use Mathaudio who also works with ASIO.
(none works with DSD,obviously,nor VC)

I would never leave windows resampling in the chain,I have measured every mode and it's not that nice in some circumstances (clipping,limiters,overloads,etc).
But if it works for you-it works.