focused on purchasing a new turntable... SNR >70db

[Chrispy]

Hello… As I'm currently focused on purchasing a new turntable, I’d like to hear your thoughts and recommendations for my next one. My shortlist includes the following models:

1. Technics SL-1500C
2. Magnat MTT 990
3. Pro-Ject The Classic
4. Pro-Ject RPM 5 Carbon
5. Thorens TD 402 DD

I’d prefer the SNR to be over 70 dB, but what is your opinion—would I actually notice a difference between a turntable with 70 dB and one with 80 dB SNR?
If there’s no real difference, then my next consideration is whether to go with direct drive or belt drive. After that, design and practicality matter.
What do you suggest?
You also have the technical measurements in att.


Thank you.

Of that group the Technics would be my choice. Not strictly a tt, but....

 

[Frank Dernie]

The belts need to be made rather precisely to be suitable for hi-fi use.

Indeed it does, particularly with low inertia platters.
Mind you many makers use round section belts and they are technically unsuited for use in record players but they seem to get away with it!

 

[Smislov]

So, I want a system where I can enjoy the format, while still having a decent setup (Pro-ject Essential II turntable on picture).
Some albums I prefer strictly on vinyl: Jefferson Airplane – Surrealistic Pillow, soft Machine, Alice Coltrane, Bob Marley, Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, etc.
Music, above all, is emotion, storytelling, soul. Whether we listen to it on a €500 turntable or a €5,000 high-end system — if a song moves you, the thought of an "ideal sound" disappears. If we obsessively chase the "perfect sound," we end up in an endless race of expensive components, A/B testing, and more time spent "listening to the system" rather than the music. “The best system is the one that, after five minutes, you forget you're listening to — and you're just immersed in the music.”
Tnx .. i'm going with Technics or Magnat ... now I chasing price

 

[waofner]

feel free to buy the turntable you like most -if the turntable fulfills two criteria:

1. the tonearm has to be rigid in it's base
2. the platter should have a weight of above 1kg

why: new rega rp10 and a 30+ year Thorens TD320 in reasonable condition measure practically the same.

i am messing with turntables for 40 years.

at least on ASR not a popular opinion: MC cartridges are superior.

 

[Frank Dernie]

View attachment 451065
So, I want a system where I can enjoy the format, while still having a decent setup (Pro-ject Essential II turntable on picture).
Some albums I prefer strictly on vinyl: Jefferson Airplane – Surrealistic Pillow, soft Machine, Alice Coltrane, Bob Marley, Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, etc.
Music, above all, is emotion, storytelling, soul. Whether we listen to it on a €500 turntable or a €5,000 high-end system — if a song moves you, the thought of an "ideal sound" disappears. If we obsessively chase the "perfect sound," we end up in an endless race of expensive components, A/B testing, and more time spent "listening to the system" rather than the music. “The best system is the one that, after five minutes, you forget you're listening to — and you're just immersed in the music.”
Tnx .. i'm going with Technics or Magnat ... now I chasing price

I agree.
I hate evaluating equipment and normally if I try using a favourite recording I end up listening to the music and forgetting I am evaluating equipment

The biggest problems with a lot of what is published about record players stems from the use of static reasoning when trying to understand what is a dynamic system, which results in many erroneous opinions.

It was well understood already in the 1970s and Bruel and Kjaer had papers and measurement systems available.

Now we do get a lot of technically wrong statements from technically illiterate reviewers and their disciples.

 

[lini]

i'm going with Technics or Magnat ... now I chasing price

If you are in Europe, another pretty decent option woulld be the Dual CS 618Q - the walnut-veneered variant of which looks best for my taste.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Smislov]

If you are in Europe, another pretty decent option woulld be the Dual CS 618Q - the walnut-veneered variant of which looks best for my taste.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

I prefer white >)
I work in a marketing agency… and my eye is drawn to the Magnat ;p I can find used turntables for around 500–650 euros(1500c and 990)… I'm starting to seriously consider that option too

 

[DSJR]

Take it from a now rather old hand who spent much of his life in the audio industry setting up and installing these darned things

It's possible to get a very quiet belt driven deck, but softer belts a la Thorens or Rega can add to wow as they don't seem to last that long in my experience (Regas posher belts can affect running speed, so their external supply is mandatory I feel). ProJect decks seem to be all things to all seasons and 'good enough' but maybe not top of each of the many trees they seem to cater for. I'll also stick my neck out and suggest that idler driven models are ALL noisy in the bass region, due to higher torque motors with inevitable vibration difficult to suppress, although add-on power supplies to vintage models appear to help a good bit.

If the solid plinth types of deck are CAREFULLY sited, used with lids preferably removed entirely, I'd go for a direct drive and probably a Technics, the 1500C coming with a good basic 2M Red cartridge easily upgraded with better stylus profile - it looks gorgeous in white and is quite low slung if viewed from the side. Only ONE moving part and in Technics' case, will see you out before it wears out I suspect (fifty year old ones are still running fine if not abused!). Siting is critical though and cabinet tops and sat on an amp or whatever is to be avoided!

If an SL1500C or 100C (upgrade the stylus though to a VMN95ML) can be got within budget, just buy one and be done with it!

P.S. I'd really like to find out exactly how good the AT LP5X really is in comparison with a Technics, once both it and the 100C have 95ML styli fitted. YouTube has a vid of the LP5X/96ML into a Spartan 5 phono stage and the gentle music played, does sound clean and quite backgrounds...

 

[Bob from Florida]

The 1500C went cheap on the tonearm VTA adjustor. It uses the set screw / base drops when you loosen versus the threaded wheel base that raises and lowers when you turn it. You have to go with the 1200/1210 GR or higher to get that feature - IIRC.

 

[J.M. Noble]

The 1500C went cheap on the tonearm VTA adjustor. It uses the set screw / base drops when you loosen versus the threaded wheel base that raises and lowers when you turn it. You have to go with the 1200/1210 GR or higher to get that feature - IIRC.

What do you mean? This is from the manual:

 

[watchnerd]

Hello… As I'm currently focused on purchasing a new turntable, I’d like to hear your thoughts and recommendations for my next one. My shortlist includes the following models:

1. Technics SL-1500C
2. Magnat MTT 990
3. Pro-Ject The Classic
4. Pro-Ject RPM 5 Carbon
5. Thorens TD 402 DD

I’d prefer the SNR to be over 70 dB, but what is your opinion—would I actually notice a difference between a turntable with 70 dB and one with 80 dB SNR?
If there’s no real difference, then my next consideration is whether to go with direct drive or belt drive. After that, design and practicality matter.
What do you suggest?
You also have the technical measurements in att.


Thank you.

Anything above SNR 65 dB is better than you need vs record noise.

I'd focus on the speed stability and wow & flutter specs, instead.

Also, the type of arm it has matters in terms of cartridges you can use (i.e. low vs med vs high mass arm), how easy it is to set VTF and anti-skate. I also massively prefer arms that allow for easy headshell swapping, but others don't care about that.

 

[mhardy6647]

What do you mean? This is from the manual:

View attachment 451126

Note that it says slide up and down. The 'spensive-er ones are threaded and screw up or down, it appears.
That will likely be finickier than a would a fine-threaded helical screw adjustment -- not unusable, but definitely less elegant and probably fiddlier, too.

 

[watchnerd]

Unless the turntable incorporates a phono preamp, any added noise would come from how the internal wiring is shielded and routed. And from the environment: Solid-plinth designs tend to be prone to picking up noise from the environment, particularly at subsonic frequencies. Alas, the combination of direct drive turntable with floating suspension design is rare. Fortunately, while subsonics can be readily measured, they're generally not very audible, and can be reduced by pairing with a phono preamplifier with proper high-pass filtering.

Regarding belts: I recently was surprised to discover that many can be sourced via AliExpress for ~1.50 USD (this was before USA imposed tariffs). Had I known this, perhaps I'd still have my Linn LP12, and would simply replace belts more often.

The replacement belts for my Michell Gyro SE go for $30.

Were you able to find the right dimensions on Ali Express?

 

[mhardy6647]

Anything above SNR 65 dB is better than you need vs record noise.

I'd focus on the speed stability and wow & flutter specs, instead.

Also, the type of arm it has matters in terms of cartridges you can use (i.e. low vs med vs high mass arm), how easy it is to set VTF and anti-skate. I also massively prefer arms that allow for easy headshell swapping, but others don't care about that.

accuracy of rotation speed is good, too -- at least for those afflicted with perfect pitch
I am not an element of that set.

 

[watchnerd]

accuracy of rotation speed is good, too -- at least for those afflicted with perfect pitch
I am not an element of that set.

I can tell if the speed is off by about 100 cents on the right material

 

[JeffS7444]

The replacement belts for my Michell Gyro SE go for $30.

Were you able to find the right dimensions on Ali Express?

I don't know the precise dimensions of the original Numark PT01 belt, as the only one I had was aged, and I wasn't having any luck finding an OEM part under either the Numark or Ion brands. But it's AliExpress-sourced replacement works well, though at 5 mm in width, it's a bit broader.

One turntable company which appears to fabricate it's own belts in-house is U-Turn Audio, though where are sourcing the rubber cord from is another matter.

 

[watchnerd]

I don't know the precise dimensions of the original Numark PT01 belt, as the only one I had was aged, and I wasn't having any luck finding an OEM part under either the Numark or Ion brands. But it's AliExpress-sourced replacement works well, though at 5 mm in width, it's a bit broader.

One turntable company which appears to fabricate it's own belts in-house is U-Turn Audio, though where are sourcing the rubber cord from is another matter.

I know the dimensions of the Michell belt (228 mm diameter, thickness of 1 to 1.6 mm), but I can't find any such belt on Ali

 

[JeffS7444]

What do you mean? This is from the manual:

View attachment 451126

But it's a tool-free design with index markings, whereas many a costly audiophile tonearm offers far less in terms of amenities.

 

[JeffS7444]

I know the dimensions of the Michell belt (228 mm diameter, thickness of 1 to 1.6 mm), but I can't find any such belt on Ali

That would correspond to a folded length of about 358 mm, and a cursory glance at AE isn't turning up anything close for me either. With some vendors, I see a big gap between 323 and 471 mm.

 

[J.M. Noble]

Note that it says slide up and down. The 'spensive-er ones are threaded and screw up or down, it appears.
That will likely be finickier than a would a fine-threaded helical screw adjustment -- not unusable, but definitely less elegant and probably fiddlier, too.

Sure, but the fellow I was responding to said something about a "set screw", which an arm lock with a lever ain't.