Focal Utopia Review (Headphone)

[solderdude]

Similar-ish response ... sure but they certainly do not sound the same to me and have had the HD650 and Utopia side by side.
Not the new Utopia nor the HD650 with current pads though.

I found the Utopia to have much better detailing and stereo imaging.
In that aspect I found the Utopia to be closer to a well EQ'ed (not Harman, sorry) HD800 in detailing, stereo imaging than the HD650.
The HD650 is no slouch.

That said there are several dB's difference even with the recent measurements in various parts of the frequency range. That IS audible and only says something about tonal balance.

Don't get me wrong, when one is on a budget the HD650 is one of the better options but if one has enough financial leeway the Utopia is the better sounding option to me.
I have to admit there is a slightly weird 'metallic' emphasis on Utopia which works fine with cymbals and strings but it weird in other instruments.

Some prefer this others prefer that. Both the Utopia and HD650 do not follow the Harman curve that closely (I would even say fortunately) and only get decent 'ratings' because there are not so much deviations in the area between 100Hz and a few kHz.

You are correct though that the Utopia is not THE best headphone out there and also has some 'niggles'.

Consider that the HD650 is owned and had been used by Amir for a long time and was one of the first ones he measured/reviewed.
This affects how one rates them.

Pretty certain Amir prefers the Stealth and uses that one most often IF he wants to do headphone listening.

 

[Garrincha]

The difference being I actually have all of these and have listened to them. So my saying I feel it really starts with the Dusk is based on actually hearing it.

WOW!

You don't seem to have heard any of this stuff you make pronouncements on.

Really ? Why being so dismissive? I own, did own or have listened to the AKG N400NC, Blon BL-03, the 7Hz Timeless and Salnotes Zero, the Fiio FD5, the Moondrop Blessing 2, Kato and Chu, the Tripowin Leá and some.

In contrast to headphones, IEMs are almost exclusively determined by FR, so my judgements are very well funded.

I also use and experiment with EQ in various forms and know what FR is responsible for.

Go look at Amir's Mark Levinson No 5909 review, that measured possibly better than anything else he has ever measured. But when he actually went to listen to it... he just didn't like it, it just didn't do it for him.

As mentioned, this is a headphone and therefore completely different. I also own the Sennheiser HD650 and HD800 and even when equalizing both to the Harman curve, the spatial effects are still greatly different, but this does not apply to IEMs.

The Salnotes Zero is well tuned for a $20 IEM. It's not the Blessing 2 Dusk or Monarch Mk 2 though. It sounds a little flat. I'd actually recommend the very similarly tuned $20 Moondrop Chu above it, despite having very similar tonality it sounds quite a bit more lively to me. Looking at the graphs before I heard them, I would have thought the Zero. But I actually prefer the Chu. I'd also recommend the Truthear Zero, it's also very good. It has "punchy" bass too, subjectively. But the Dusk is a big step up from all of these. This is coming from actually listening to them.

"Punch" is just an audiophool wizard word.

Have you actually heard any of these, or are these pronouncements coming from comparing the graphs?

Yes I did. I started buying the (relatively) more expensive IEMs (Blessing 2, Timeless, Kato, FD5) and than got out of curiosity some cheaper ones. This and the use of EQ did let me question the need for spending much, I sold the Blessing 2, also because of fitting issues. Any IEM that has sufficiently low distortion and no strong resonances, thus is able to being EQed smoothly to the Harman curve (or any other), will sound quite finely and as good as it gets with IEMs.

I will give you that it is already diminishing above the Salnotes Zero, in that it makes sound, good sound, it already sounds very good. So sure, you're already diminishing. What constitutes a "diminishing" return is inherently a subjective personal judgement, there's no objective criteria for this.

Yes, if sound quality increases only logarithmically in price, or not at all.

For me, there's a big gap between the Salnotes Zero and Blessing 2 Dusk, but a far smaller gap between it and the Monarch Mk2.

For you, just arbitrarly, no general value judgment. The FR is extremely similar, so there is no real basis for a widely different sound. Add EQ to the equation and only neglible differences will remain.

I did not personally hear the Monarch MK II, but the FR is very close to the Truthear (besides low subbass) and some guy on the thread considered selling his Monarch, so there is that, $50 against $1000.

 

[oleg87]

So I decided to pick up a pair of local used Utopias on a "whim", see what I'm missing. Figure I can resell them for about the same $$$ if I don't get along with them.
So far, I'm... whelmed. They sound nice but not exceptional compared to other nice open-backs. Low end feels a bit weightier than my reference HD600s but not significantly so. For some reason they're a little trickier to get a consistent seating, tonality-wise. Stock cable is like a lamp cord, not a big fan. Quite comfy otherwise. There's some peak in upper mids/treble that's making me itch for the parametric EQ but maybe I'm just suffering fom chronic Sennheiser-ear, so I'm letting my ears get used to their natural sound. Let's see if I warm up to them.

ps... anyone have recommendations for solid quality/sanely priced replacement cables that are a bit slinkier?

 

[Garrincha]

I will give you that it is already diminishing above the Salnotes Zero, in that it makes sound, good sound, it already sounds very good. So sure, you're already diminishing. What constitutes a "diminishing" return is inherently a subjective personal judgement, there's no objective criteria for this. For me, there's a big gap between the Salnotes Zero and Blessing 2 Dusk, but a far smaller gap between it and the Monarch Mk2.

I have to correct myself, diminishing returns already set in starting with the $5 Sony MH750.

 

[PGAMiami]

We’re going to have to agree to disagree. Given how often comments on value proposition are included Amir’s conclusions it’s hard to imagine he’s totally agnostic to cost when deciding what he recommends.

I’ve never heard the 6XX, I expect they are excellent especially for the price. But I would not conclude the Utopia are not worth 4000 just because the FR is similar to the 6XX.

 

[Garrincha]

We’re going to have to agree to disagree. Given how often comments on value proposition are included Amir’s conclusions it’s hard to imagine he’s totally agnostic to cost when deciding what he recommends.

I’ve never heard the 6XX, I expect they are excellent especially for the price. But I would not conclude the Utopia are not worth 4000 just because the FR is similar to the 6XX.

I have not heard the Utopia, but from what was said, I would assume the soundstage and other spatial effects are better than the HD6xx, even with very similar FR, but still it is hardly worth the $4000, considering that you could buy the DCA Expanse for that money or the Sennheiser HD800S for less than half of it.

 

[PGAMiami]

So I decided to pick up a pair of local used Utopias on a "whim", see what I'm missing. Figure I can resell them for about the same $$$ if I don't get along with them.
So far, I'm... whelmed. They sound nice but not exceptional compared to other nice open-backs. Low end feels a bit weightier than my reference HD600s but not significantly so. For some reason they're a little trickier to get a consistent seating, tonality-wise. Stock cable is like a lamp cord, not a big fan. Quite comfy otherwise. There's some peak in upper mids/treble that's making me itch for the parametric EQ but maybe I'm just suffering fom chronic Sennheiser-ear, so I'm letting my ears get used to their natural sound. Let's see if I warm up to them.

ps... anyone have recommendations for solid quality/sanely priced replacement cables that are a bit slinkier?

The stock cables are way too long and heavy. I recently purchased a 4 foot set from Fog City Audio on Etsy for my Utopia. These are extremely well made with Mogami wire, very flexible and light. Huge improvement in comfort. I probably should have gotten a 5 foot set given how light and flexible these are. Custom made. Shipped same day I ordered.

 

[PGAMiami]

I have not heard the Utopia, but from what was said, I would assume the soundstage and other spatial effects are better than the HD6xx, even with very similar FR, but still it is hardly worth the $4000, considering that you could buy the DCA Expanse for that money or the Sennheiser HD800S for less than half of it.

While I haven’t heard either of these, if I was buying today, I’d almost certainly get the DCA instead of the Utopia. That said the Utopia is a classic design that in its time moved forward the SOTA.

 

[PGAMiami]

The stock cables are way too long and heavy. I recently purchased a 4 foot set from Fog City Audio on Etsy for my Utopia. These are extremely well made with Mogami wire, very flexible and light. Huge improvement in comfort. I probably should have gotten a 5 foot set given how light and flexible these are. Custom made. Shipped same day I ordered.

I’m amazed at how fantastic the Utopia sound on my Topping G5 with an iPhone running Amir’s EQ settings on Roon. And these Fog City Audio made all the difference on comfort and portability.

 

[oleg87]

Out of curiosity... anyone have favorite test tracks that really showcase that "slam"/dynamics Focals are known for?

 

[GaryH]

Anything with significant percussive sub-bass.

 

[Garrincha]

Out of curiosity... anyone have favorite test tracks that really showcase that "slam"/dynamics Focals are known for?

Take any techno or HipHop/Trap track. But, I personally doubt if different "slam" or "punch" between two headphones is a real thing, given the FR in the bass is equal.

 

[Garrincha]

The Salnotes Zero is well tuned for a $20 IEM. It's not the Blessing 2 Dusk or Monarch Mk 2 though.

So you must have a real good argument for claiming that the Salnotes Zero and the Blessing 2 Dusk sound not anything but extremely similar. Is it the extended treble above 15kHz?

 

[okok]

wth? some crinacle iem hijack the utopia thread?

 

[Robbo99999]

So I decided to pick up a pair of local used Utopias on a "whim", see what I'm missing. Figure I can resell them for about the same $$$ if I don't get along with them.
So far, I'm... whelmed. They sound nice but not exceptional compared to other nice open-backs. Low end feels a bit weightier than my reference HD600s but not significantly so. For some reason they're a little trickier to get a consistent seating, tonality-wise. Stock cable is like a lamp cord, not a big fan. Quite comfy otherwise. There's some peak in upper mids/treble that's making me itch for the parametric EQ but maybe I'm just suffering fom chronic Sennheiser-ear, so I'm letting my ears get used to their natural sound. Let's see if I warm up to them.

ps... anyone have recommendations for solid quality/sanely priced replacement cables that are a bit slinkier?

I'm not surprised you're itching to get at the parametric EQ when you look at the peakiness going on in the treble! (from 4-7kHz) The good thing about your HD600 is how smooth they are, not peaky at all.

 

[Blorg]

So you must have a real good argument for claiming that the Salnotes Zero and the Blessing 2 Dusk sound not anything but extremely similar. Is it the extended treble above 15kHz?View attachment 239708

The Dusk has very similar tonality to the Salnotes Zero. Both were tuned by Crinacle to the same target so that's not surprising. I don't personally think they sound the same, but then I have the disadvantage of actually owning both and listening to them, which compromises my objectivity.

I also own the HD6XX (HD650) and Utopia, and I don't think they sound the same either. The Utopia sounds significantly better. It would want to given the price. Nowhere near "ten times better", although quantifying that is inherently a subjective value judgement. This simply isn't an objective metric. In my opinion, massive diminishing returns. But- it is better. But what would I know, I am only listening to them.

These differences are to an extent relatively subtle. Both are playing back the same music with broadly similar tonality. You've said before you can't hear even large variations between headphones or IEMs that are very evident in the measurements. You can't hear 2-3dB bloat in the mid-bass, you can't hear 6dB peaks in the upper mids or treble, these aren't significant differences to you. So to you these might well sound identical. I think they sound different, and the Dusk is better. Unfortunately I determined this by actually listening to them, which I accept may have coloured my judgement.

The Salnotes Zero is fantastic for a $20 IEM. But I don't think it's on the level of the Blessing 2 Dusk. If you get equal enjoyment from them, though, great, that will save you a lot of money.

These differences between IEMs and headphones although some might find subtle, are far greater to me than the difference than the 30-40dB variance in SINAD from the best measuring to mediocre DACs or amps, which I don't think I can hear at all.

 

[Garrincha]

These differences are to an extent relatively subtle. Both are playing back the same music with broadly similar tonality. You've said before you can't hear even large variations between headphones or IEMs that are very evident in the measurements. You can't hear 2-3dB bloat in the mid-bass, you can't hear 6dB peaks in the upper mids or treble, these aren't significant differences to you. So to you these might well sound identical. I think they sound different, and the Dusk is better. Unfortunately I determined this by actually listening to them, which I accept may have coloured my judgement.

When did I say this? Pay attention to what you are saying. It is more like that you can hear differences where almost no exist, amazing ability!

The Salnotes Zero is fantastic for a $20 IEM. But I don't think it's on the level of the Blessing 2 Dusk. If you get equal enjoyment from them, though, great, that will save you a lot of money.

It's is probably much more so that you spent more than $300 on the Dusk and want to justify your purchase, you should play down your condescending talk.

These differences between IEMs and headphones although some might find subtle, are far greater to me than the difference than the 30-40dB variance in SINAD from the best measuring to mediocre DACs or amps, which I don't think I can hear at all.

What? I thought you are such a golden ear, I thought you could hear down to -300db as Rob Watts.

 

[oleg87]

A day's listening hasn't made that pesky treble peak much less irritating to my ears. I suppose it must be doable, since I used to use Grados as my primary cans a long time ago and found them perfectly listenable... but why torture myself. After hunting it down with the EQ (seems like that 6K peak in Amir's measurement is the culprit) the Utopias are transformed into something I enjoy a great deal indeed and feel no particular urge to tweak further.

 

[DEF]

Can we talk about headphones sounding different to different persons? Your ear canal, your headshape, the nose... Everything contributes to it.
If I just pick a headphone that measures similarly to the Utopia, will it sound better to me? I really think that depends on how well it fits me. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
By the way, I had the HD650 and I found them super uncomfortable and awful to listen at. I loved the 4000$ Utopia. Except its weight, and the awkward cable. I didnt yet try the expensive Dan Clark one.

 

[MayaTlab]

Can we talk about headphones sounding different to different persons? Your ear canal, your headshape, the nose... Everything contributes to it.
If I just pick a headphone that measures similarly to the Utopia, will it sound better to me? I really think that depends on how well it fits me. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Depends heavily on the model of the headphones in question. It's a subject Harman is actually researching ATM using blocked ear canal entrance measurements and comparing in-situ measurements performed on several subjects vs. different ear simulators.