Focal Utopia Review (Headphone)

[Robbo99999]

4K for headphones is of course pretty crazy. But whatever...if someone has the money and that's what they want to do with it so be it I guess. However, I think it's great that there's good information out there like this review that presents an honest picture of what you're actually getting in terms of sound and that you can very definitely get that SQ at a much much MUCH lower price point. There's a lot of people who fall into the trap of reading/watching the glowing, magical reviews and reading the forum threads and deciding they need to get to this level to really hear the music, and some of them definitely don't have the money in pocket to blow 4 grand on a set of cans. Anyone who's financial situation is such that a few thousand dollars actually means something to them better not be spending it on headphones like this.

Ha, yeah, and how much is that headphone in Canada, am I right in hearing that electronics or audio gear are massively expensive over there?!

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Ha, yeah, and how much is that headphone in Canada, am I right in hearing that electronics or audio gear are massively expensive over there?!

well, mostly prices are in line with other places, but of course the exchange rate makes everything look more expensive. Some stuff is more expensive of course depending on where it originates I guess...

Clears are at $2000 on Amazon.ca which is about $1600 USD at current exchange so about the same I suppose

 

[Robbo99999]

well, mostly prices are in line with other places, but of course the exchange rate makes everything look more expensive. Some stuff is more expensive of course depending on where it originates I guess...

Clears are at $2000 on Amazon.ca which is about $1600 USD at current exchange so about the same I suppose

Ah, not too bad then, we're a bit more shafted in the UK then, as often times electronics are 1:1 ratio in price, in terms of say USD$100 or £100 for a certain item, yet the exchange rate is such that in real terms it should be £70, but no we have to pay £100 - over 35% more expensive over here in UK vs USA prices....one exception seems to be AKG headphones though, which are cheaper here in the UK (at least the K702 anyway).

 

[welsh]

I was able to compare this Utopia with the Meze Empyrean (around same price level, 3k€) and to my ears the Meze was way superior. The Meze had enough bass and it was... how to say... 'savoury'? The Utopia was straight and punchy while the Meze more relax and 'playful'. Now, I am not a specialist, I will wait for the Meze measurements and more importantly: psychologically accept to put 3k in a headphone...

I briefly auditioned the Empyrean and found it just... boring. One of the most over-hyped ‘phones, in my opinion. I’d actually rather listen to my HD 650s.

 

[welsh]

If I had paid $4,000 for a headphone that measures & sounds worse than an 11 year old HiFiMan HE-6, I would be so angry that I'd never eat croissant again.

Now imagine that you had bought a TotalDac!

 

[welsh]

This is for the consumer who wants the best $4000 headphone. The high price itself is one of the criteria for the people who buy it. They want something scarce and exclusive. I will spare everyone another car analogy, but this is not the only luxury good that is positioned with such a strategy.

I have a Leica camera. I love it, but at the same time I’m aware that a great part of the appeal IS the exclusive image conferred by the iconic Red Dot...

 

[welsh]

The FR curve past 1khz and even more so 5khz or so is heavily dependent on the interaction between the headphones and your own anatomy (or the test rig's design) - just like the response at lower frequencies can be more or less heavily influenced by seal. I believe that this image is an interesting illustration of that phenomenon (I believe that it comes from that paper) :
https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=16877)
:
View attachment 122152

Some of these peaks and dips might be a constant across all listeners, but some others rather are, to some degree, the product of that interaction, and above 5kz or so the delta can be quite huge.
Even the HD650 may exhibit some peaks in some measurements : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd650-measurements-brüel-kjær-5128.951182/
That being said, if I look at the deviation in the above picture I'd probably lean towards thinking that most Focals show some oddities in their response in the 1khz-5khz range that's on the edge of what variation between individuals would suggest is acceptable (I'm being kind here), and some of the peaks past 5khz that we've seen from them are constant across various test rigs (the 6khz peak or so for example), so perhaps an intrinsic quality of the headphones rather than something that has to do with how they interact with the user's anatomy. And that conversely, given how quite impressively smooth the HD650 measures across various measurements, I'd be inclined to think that they're likely to be effectively smoother across a wider range of listeners. But it's difficult to know for certain how they'll behave on someone's head in particular.

If I may add a personal anecdote, with the exception of their 4300-4400hz peak that shows up in all measurements of the HD560S, the HD560S and HD650 both measure reasonably smoothly across various measurements in the trebles range, but when I listen to sweeps on my own head, it's very easy for me to distinguish at which frequencies the HD560S produces peaks and dips while I'm having a much harder time doing so on the HD650, suggesting, perhaps, that the magnitude and severity of the peaks and dips of the HD560S on my own head is quite a lot more important than the HD650 (at some frequencies the HD560S is actually a little bit painful for me), despite decent measurements in both cases.

Really, the amazing thing is how good the HD600 and HD650 still are after all these years. For chamber music, for instance, the HD600s still take some beating.

 

[MOCKBA]

Measurement is less prone to error than any subjective assessment, but what exactly happens in the individual brain is not completely or precisely measurable (at least yet)

The equipment should cost 5 times more, to trust any results.

 

[MOCKBA]

PS. I would like to highly recommend this album to the Utopia owner

PCM? No way.

 

[Tachyon88]

The equipment should cost 5 times more, to trust any results.

Which equipment ?

 

[MOCKBA]

This or a new mountain bike?

I would suggest a new mountain bike.

 

[MOCKBA]

Which equipment ?

Measurements.

 

[Rottmannash]

well, mostly prices are in line with other places, but of course the exchange rate makes everything look more expensive. Some stuff is more expensive of course depending on where it originates I guess...

Clears are at $2000 on Amazon.ca which is about $1600 USD at current exchange so about the same I suppose

$990 brand spanking new on Headphones.com

 

[Tachyon88]

Measurements.

So you think that his measuring equipment for the headphones is not valid because its does not cost 5x more than his current equipment ? What exactly do you think it would show vs his current equipment ?

 

[phoenixsong]

The equipment should cost 5 times more, to trust any results.

The cost is just a price tag in the hands of a fool. Also, does it mean all measurements of something like the Orpheus 2 should be forever disregarded?

 

[Inner Space]

... we're a bit more shafted in the UK then, as often times electronics are 1:1 ratio in price, in terms of say USD$100 or £100 for a certain item, yet the exchange rate is such that in real terms it should be £70, but no we have to pay £100 - over 35% more expensive over here in UK vs USA prices....

Don't forget that UK consumer prices always include tax, and US prices never do. It comes out close in the end.

 

[Robbo99999]

Don't forget that UK consumer prices always include tax, and US prices never do. It comes out close in the end.

How do you mean, in the USA there is sales tax on items, it's up to 10% when I googled it just now. Or do you mean that all consumer prices in the USA in shops and in online shops only show the cost without tax, and then the up to 10% tax is added at the checkout? Here in the UK all goods are listed with tax included, so there are no surprises. Even if that is the case the 10% added tax in the USA is still relatively dwarfed by the 35% more expensive electronic goods in the UK after taking exchange rate into account.....like I said often electronic goods in USA & UK are listed at both for example $100 or £100, it's a trend I've noticed, just swap the pound & dollar sign.

 

[Rottmannash]

How do you mean, in the USA there is sales tax on items, it's up to 10% when I googled it just now. Or do you mean that all consumer prices in the USA in shops and in online shops only show the cost without tax, and then the up to 10% tax is added at the checkout? Here in the UK all goods are listed with tax included, so there are no surprises. Even if that is the case the 10% added tax in the USA is still relatively dwarfed by the 35% more expensive electronic goods in the UK after taking exchange rate into account.....like I said often electronic goods in USA & UK are listed at both for example $100 or £100, it's a trend I've noticed, just swap the pound & dollar sign.

Tax is added after in the US. It is different for each state. Until a couple years ago one could order online and could avoid paying sales tax (in certain states) but there were laws passed that eliminated that.

 

[Jimbob54]

How do you mean, in the USA there is sales tax on items, it's up to 10% when I googled it just now. Or do you mean that all consumer prices in the USA in shops and in online shops only show the cost without tax, and then the up to 10% tax is added at the checkout? Here in the UK all goods are listed with tax included, so there are no surprises. Even if that is the case the 10% added tax in the USA is still relatively dwarfed by the 35% more expensive electronic goods in the UK after taking exchange rate into account.....like I said often electronic goods in USA & UK are listed at both for example $100 or £100, it's a trend I've noticed, just swap the pound & dollar sign.

Yup. As a good rule of thumb for me, buy from the USA (or indeed EU post 01 January Brexit) at your peril. Convert the dollar or Euro price (including shipping and any sales tax) easily on google to £ , then gross it up by approx 25% and you will have an idea of what the hit you are going to have to take on duties/ VAT/ fees is when it arrives in country. That is the price to compare against UK retailers selling the same item. Schiit is a good example. Their authorised UK seller is pretty much £1/$1 on list price, but may actually be cheaper than importing from the US even if the checkout price in the US makes it seems attractive.

Interestingly- buying from Asia direct is more of a game of russian roulette but one has to assume the same import costs etc may apply. Sometimes they do not.

 

[Helicopter]

I will just chime in that some US sales taxes are hidden too. Examples that come to mind are the taxes on automobile fuel and the hidden sales tax in New York City, which is in addition to the overt state sales tax you pay there. Of course tariffs and excise taxes are also hidden.

The "employer contribution" to payroll taxes is another hidden tax the burden of which is bourn by employees in many cases, but that one is so sneaky you need some understanding of price flexibility to know.

Pretty sure most of us still have it better than Europe and the UK.