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Focal Clear Review (headphone)

ALaylowguy

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I bought a bunch of under $99 headphones a few months back. I will start testing them once I get through the loaner ones that have been waiting. don't have that Phillips though. Does it have a good reputation?
Dear Amir, if you got this message, please consider doing measurement for the Phillips SHP9500. To me it's the best p/p headphone but I feel like people are just taking it as something as a starter in this hobby. Having data to back it up would be wonderful. Thank you.
 

Jimbob54

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Dear Amir, if you got this message, please consider doing measurement for the Phillips SHP9500. To me it's the best p/p headphone but I feel like people are just taking it as something as a starter in this hobby. Having data to back it up would be wonderful. Thank you.
PM Amir about sending yours in. But I doubt it will win any prizes around here with that bass rolling off a cliff.

 

Cylphio

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equalizing these masterpieces to that horrible mess of frequencies called "harman curve" is a crime. the Clear is a refined piece of gear that allows the listener to enjoy music in a very unique way, made of never forced details, agile bass, upfront yet cohesive mids, capable of incredible transients, but with a quality that remains liquid and grainless. How is it reasonable asking to them to play bassy music at 104 db? I listen music at 77 db with rare, short moments of 85 db. Real voices must be twangy and penetrant, metallic sounds must be rendered properly: have you listened to a crash from a drumkit? The soundstage is not the largest, but it's incredibly deep and layered. Please make a real life test; destroying one of the best headphone ever let them clip doesn't make them worse than a planar that doesn't distort at 104 db but lacks the wonderful dynamics and impact the French pair have.
 

ShiZo

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equalizing these masterpieces to that horrible mess of frequencies called "harman curve" is a crime. the Clear is a refined piece of gear that allows the listener to enjoy music in a very unique way, made of never forced details, agile bass, upfront yet cohesive mids, capable of incredible transients, but with a quality that remains liquid and grainless. How is it reasonable asking to them to play bassy music at 104 db? I listen music at 77 db with rare, short moments of 85 db. Real voices must be twangy and penetrant, metallic sounds must be rendered properly: have you listened to a crash from a drumkit? The soundstage is not the largest, but it's incredibly deep and layered. Please make a real life test; destroying one of the best headphone ever let them clip doesn't make them worse than a planar that doesn't distort at 104 db but lacks the wonderful dynamics and impact the French pair have.
Mine doesn't even clip and I have always listened to music loud. I have a personally theory that it's almost like CPU's and the silicon lottery, in which different batches have different tolerances. I know this because I went through a bunch to get one like this and saw they all had different tolerances
 

rsoffer

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equalizing these masterpieces to that horrible mess of frequencies called "harman curve" is a crime. the Clear is a refined piece of gear that allows the listener to enjoy music in a very unique way, made of never forced details, agile bass, upfront yet cohesive mids, capable of incredible transients, but with a quality that remains liquid and grainless. How is it reasonable asking to them to play bassy music at 104 db? I listen music at 77 db with rare, short moments of 85 db. Real voices must be twangy and penetrant, metallic sounds must be rendered properly: have you listened to a crash from a drumkit? The soundstage is not the largest, but it's incredibly deep and layered. Please make a real life test; destroying one of the best headphone ever let them clip doesn't make them worse than a planar that doesn't distort at 104 db but lacks the wonderful dynamics and impact the French pair have.

I tend to agree. What is this obsession with equalizing everything to Harman? Harman isn't the absolute "best" sound for everyone, it is an approximation based on what sounded closest to natural for the majority of people. There are deviations built into that.

The engineers who created these headphones have an opinion about how this specific headphone should sound, what takes most advantage of the driver's strengths, etc. It's like food, not everyone likes their pizza crispy, but some restaurants are opinionated and believe this is how it should taste. Those are usually the best restaurants. The most underwhelming and uninspiring restaurants are the ones who try to please everyone.
 

Doodski

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I tend to agree. What is this obsession with equalizing everything to Harman? Harman isn't the absolute "best" sound for everyone, it is an approximation based on what sounded closest to natural for the majority of people. There are deviations built into that.

The engineers who created these headphones have an opinion about how this specific headphone should sound, what takes most advantage of the driver's strengths, etc. It's like food, not everyone likes their pizza crispy, but some restaurants are opinionated and believe this is how it should taste. Those are usually the best restaurants. The most underwhelming and uninspiring restaurants are the ones who try to please everyone.
In this specific case the taste and texture of pizza do not equate to the frequency response of the majority of listeners. To have transducers that meet the target for the majority of listeners also means that the transducer is PEQable and that means it is more suitable for more peeps even if they do not want the Harmon curve.
 

rsoffer

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In this specific case the taste and texture of pizza do not equate to the frequency response of the majority of listeners. To have transducers that meet the target for the majority of listeners also means that the transducer is PEQable and that means it is more suitable for more peeps even if they do not want the Harmon curve.

I don't see how it's any different. There are ways to measure which flavor profiles are suitable to the largest majority of people. That's what McDonalds and other fast food chains spend millions on research to find out. They engineer their food to taste good to widest range. Does that mean it is objectively the best tasting food? Of course not.

Most of these high quality headphones already are somewhere in the "vicinity" of harman, just like the Focal Clears are. I would contend that "more suitable to more peeps" isn't the highest metric of success here. These are products manufactured by designers who have an opinion and are creating a vision and experience to enjoy. Perhaps that vision doesn't align with you, that's fine. EQability is only one dimension of a headphone's performance. It can also be influenced by things other than tuning, such as the quality and distortion characteristics of the driver itself.

I EQ'd my Focal Clears to Harman, and for the first few minutes it sounded good. Then after a short bit, it began to sound fatiguing and headache inducing. With a driver which has these dynamics and impact, I could understand why Focal tuned these headphones the way they are. I experimented with many EQ profiles and find myself always going back to the original non EQ'd version which sounds way more natural and less fatiguing to me. I'm only one data point, but my point is it is important to try understand and appreciate these products for what the designer intended. Different flavors here, there's a chance to discover something you may have not known you enjoyed.
 

Doodski

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I don't see how it's any different. There are ways to measure which flavor profiles are suitable to the largest majority of people. That's what McDonalds and other fast food chains spend millions on research to find out. They engineer their food to taste good to widest range. Does that mean it is objectively the best tasting food? Of course not.

Most of these high quality headphones already are somewhere in the "vicinity" of harman, just like the Focal Clears are. I would contend that "more suitable to more peeps" isn't the highest metric of success here. These are products manufactured by designers who have an opinion and are creating a vision and experience to enjoy. Perhaps that vision doesn't align with you, that's fine. EQability is only one dimension of a headphone's performance. It can also be influenced by things other than tuning, such as the quality and distortion characteristics of the driver itself.

I EQ'd my Focal Clears to Harman, and for the first few minutes it sounded good. Then after a short bit, it began to sound fatiguing and headache inducing. With a driver which has these dynamics and impact, I could understand why Focal tuned these headphones the way they are. I experimented with many EQ profiles and find myself always going back to the original non EQ'd version which sounds way more natural and less fatiguing to me. I'm only one data point, but my point is it is important to try understand and appreciate these products for what the designer intended. Different flavors here, there's a chance to discover something you may have not known you enjoyed.
I'm not a Harmon curve listener. I recently had a Dr examine my ears and he said there is wax due to using headphones and earbuds for maybe 8 to 12 hours per day. So it's olive oil treatment and then go back to the Dr for a checkup. For my entire life I have enjoyed a large amount of high frequency from my transducers. As can be seen here.>
z Screenshot 2023-04-08 230137.png
 

Cylphio

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we must admit that the majority's taste is not very refined and the harman target try to maintain the clarity letting the vocals survive to that amount of bass that everyone wants. the target has to separate that bass from the mids with a noticeable scoop that make the baritone's voice not so rich. it's a real mess. Open dynamic cans don't reach that level of bass because of the limit of the design, so it is a compromise made of extreme bass, shoutyness, grain... it's not for me and it should not be for audiophiles in search for fidelity
 

staticV3

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we must admit that the majority's taste is not very refined and the harman target try to maintain the clarity letting the vocals survive to that amount of bass that everyone wants. the target has to separate that bass from the mids with a noticeable scoop that make the baritone's voice not so rich. it's a real mess. Open dynamic cans don't reach that level of bass because of the limit of the design, so it is a compromise made of extreme bass, shoutyness, grain... it's not for me and it should not be for audiophiles in search for fidelity
Out of curiosity: what's your ideal frequency response for headphones?
 
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Cylphio

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Out of curiosity: what's your ideal frequency response for headphones?
Crinacle reference for over ear is a good start point for me, the hd600 is a good tobal reference, but over the years I noticed that some coloration are welcome. A little less 2khz, 1-1.5 db, al little more air, a luttle less 8 khz. The Clear are a little bit different but I will not eq mine because the deviations are so tastefully done that the sum of them makes a more resolving, exciting and euphonic reproduction than a reference. The bass is more dynamic and solid, the mids stand out in a good way, detailed but not forced and the voices aren't shouted out, and that contributes to a wonderful illusion of a more deep and spacious presentation. Yes, sometimes i miss the perfect vocals of the hd600, but "perfect" sometimes is boring.
 

IAtaman

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equalizing these masterpieces to that horrible mess of frequencies called "harman curve" is a crime. the Clear is a refined piece of gear that allows the listener to enjoy music in a very unique way, made of never forced details, agile bass, upfront yet cohesive mids, capable of incredible transients, but with a quality that remains liquid and grainless. How is it reasonable asking to them to play bassy music at 104 db? I listen music at 77 db with rare, short moments of 85 db. Real voices must be twangy and penetrant, metallic sounds must be rendered properly: have you listened to a crash from a drumkit? The soundstage is not the largest, but it's incredibly deep and layered. Please make a real life test; destroying one of the best headphone ever let them clip doesn't make them worse than a planar that doesn't distort at 104 db but lacks the wonderful dynamics and impact the French pair have.
You might like the Harman Target tuning, you might not like it, that is up to you of course, but calling these headphones a masterpiece is an insult to the capable designers and engineers who can design and engineer headphones with much better managed distortion and resonances. Buying a semi-capable product and trying to justify its shortcomings as "preference" or "design intent" is what got "audiophiles" where they are now, don't you think it is about the time to change tack?
 
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Cylphio

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You might like the Harman Target tuning, you might not like it, that is up to you of course, but calling these headphones a masterpiece is an insult to the capable designers and engineers who can design and engineer headphones with much better managed distortion and resonances. Buying a semi-capable product and trying to justify its shortcomings as "preference" or "design intent" is what got "audiophiles" where they are now, don't you think it is about the time to change tack?
In your opinion It is not a masterpiece because of clipping at earbleeding levels with a heavy low shelf eq on bassy music? Or because it sounds metallic on metallic sound? Or because it doesn't match the screaming shoutyness of that curve decided by edm listeners on drugs? That shoutyness is intended to balance the insane amount of bass of the harman tuned pairs. Their clarity is world class, their separation is outstanding. Just because the clears is not intended to be sharp it doesn't mean that the details are hidden. Now name a better designed audiophile open dynamic headphones under 900 euro
 

IAtaman

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In your opinion It is not a masterpiece because of clipping at earbleeding levels with a heavy low shelf eq on bassy music? Or because it sounds metallic on metallic sound? Or because it doesn't match the screaming shoutyness of that curve decided by edm listeners on drugs? That shoutyness is intended to balance the insane amount of bass of the harman tuned pairs. Their clarity is world class, their separation is outstanding. Just because the clears is not intended to be sharp it doesn't mean that the details are hidden. Now name a better designed audiophile open dynamic headphones under 900 euro
I would not call a headphone that I can not tune to my taste and listen at higher levels because it starts to distort a masterpiece. I am not disputing It might be a great headphone for you, but it most certainly is not a masterpiece.

For me LCD-X is a masterpiece of a headphone. It is not the best headphone I have or even the one I use the most, but I think it is a masterpiece. It has amazing bass, very good detail and can handle whatever tuning or level you throw at it without any complaints. I am aware they are not dynamic, and I don't see why a great headphone needs to be dynamic so there you go.
 

Cylphio

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I would not call a headphone that I can not tune to my taste and listen at higher levels because it starts to distort a masterpiece. I am not disputing It might be a great headphone for you, but it most certainly is not a masterpiece.

For me LCD-X is a masterpiece of a headphone. It is not the best headphone I have or even the one I use the most, but I think it is a masterpiece. It has amazing bass, very good detail and can handle whatever tuning or level you throw at it without any complaints. I am aware they are not dynamic, and I don't see why a great headphone needs to be dynamic so there you go.
Yes, but you have to admit that a pair of headphones meant to be used as it is, can be a masterpiece even if they cannot be eq'ed to match their opposite signature... as a "never eq" guy I could say that the dullness of the audeze headphones is a deal breaker. I'd never buy an unusable pair of headphone If not equalized but I respect sho does it.
 

rsoffer

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You might like the Harman Target tuning, you might not like it, that is up to you of course, but calling these headphones a masterpiece is an insult to the capable designers and engineers who can design and engineer headphones with much better managed distortion and resonances. Buying a semi-capable product and trying to justify its shortcomings as "preference" or "design intent" is what got "audiophiles" where they are now, don't you think it is about the time to change tack?

The clipping is unfortunate, and I'm one of the lucky ones who can listen to bass heavy music with my Clears at super loud levels without them clipping. Focal should address this driver variance no doubt.

That said, the Clears ARE a masterpiece and the vast vast majority of customers who buy them do not experience clipping and absolutely love how they sound.

They have very low distortion, up until clipping point where the driver meets xmax. This point differs with each unit, and is not at all easy to reach.
 

Robbo99999

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we must admit that the majority's taste is not very refined and the harman target try to maintain the clarity letting the vocals survive to that amount of bass that everyone wants. the target has to separate that bass from the mids with a noticeable scoop that make the baritone's voice not so rich. it's a real mess. Open dynamic cans don't reach that level of bass because of the limit of the design, so it is a compromise made of extreme bass, shoutyness, grain... it's not for me and it should not be for audiophiles in search for fidelity
we must admit that the majority's taste is not very refined and the harman target try to maintain the clarity letting the vocals survive to that amount of bass that everyone wants. the target has to separate that bass from the mids with a noticeable scoop that make the baritone's voice not so rich. it's a real mess. Open dynamic cans don't reach that level of bass because of the limit of the design, so it is a compromise made of extreme bass, shoutyness, grain... it's not for me and it should not be for audiophiles in search for fidelity
That's your own opinion re the Harman Curve, so it's not for you to tell other people that the Harman Curve is not good sound, as it is good sound for a lot of people. Same for your opinion of the Focal Clear, I don't think it measures particularly well. Another point you made about open dynamic cans, you can EQ them up to Harman level bass, but it depends which ones you're talking about, with HD560s it's perfectly fine for example - and I'd say it's a better headphone from the measurements than your $1490 Focal Clear "masterpiece" whilst only costing about $160! Ha, you did deserve it though! ;)
 

rsoffer

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That's your own opinion re the Harman Curve, so it's not for you to tell other people that the Harman Curve is not good sound, as it is good sound for a lot of people. Same for your opinion of the Focal Clear, I don't think it measures particularly well. Another point you made about open dynamic cans, you can EQ them up to Harman level bass, but it depends which ones you're talking about, with HD560s it's perfectly fine for example - and I'd say it's a better headphone from the measurements than your $1490 Focal Clear "masterpiece" whilst only costing about $160! Ha, you did deserve it though! ;)

Yeah I'm not with the harman shaming, everyone is free to enjoy what they enjoy.

The rest of what you wrote is kind of silly. I don't know anyone who has listened to both the HD560S and Clears who would take the HD560S. I can EQ my pair of Clears to harman levels of bass without issue. Re: measurements, have you heard the Clears? I highly doubt you'd say the same if you had.

There's a reason why the Clears are considered some of the best headphones available at any price point by many reputable reviewers. Tyll from innerfidelity, DMS, Josh Valour, the entire headphones.com review team. When you read reviews from regular customers who have heard them alongside many competitors, they hold up very well and are often preferred. Very rarely does clipping even come up as an issue.
 

IAtaman

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Yes, but you have to admit that a pair of headphones meant to be used as it is, can be a masterpiece even if they cannot be eq'ed to match their opposite signature... as a "never eq" guy I could say that the dullness of the audeze headphones is a deal breaker. I'd never buy an unusable pair of headphone If not equalized but I respect sho does it.
I disagree. I would argue the exact opposite actually. I think you will agree that the person who is designing the headphone has no idea how his creation will interact with my head and ears and he has no idea what kind of music I intend to listen with them. What sounds nice and clear to him can, and does sound bright and piercing to me - there is no way for him to know that. A subdued bass that sounds great with Ravel can sound horrible with Metallica. A pair of headphones are meant to be flexible to be tuned to needs of its listener in my opinion.

Although it is a non-issue for me I do agree on the somewhat dull out of the box tuning of LCD series. Give MM-500 a try if you get a chance sometime. Those headphones solve a lot of the problems of Audeze headphones in my opinion.
 
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