Focal Clear MG Professional headphones started sounding very bad after listening to them on different amplifiers and DACs

[Deleted member 98861]

After a brief listening session at low volume with my Focal Clear MG Professional headphones (connected to an RME Babyface Pro FS, RME ADI-2 DAC FS, various Violectric models, and a Niimbus US5 Pro), the sound quality deteriorated significantly and has not recovered for over seven months. I hope I'm posting in the right forum. I apologize if the translation isn’t entirely accurate, I’m using a translation tool.

Background: I listen to my headphones through my laptop (they sounded great with it), and I broke them in using the laptop as well, following the manufacturer’s recommendation, and the sound consistently improved in every way with each break-in session. Then I listened to various DACs and amplifiers at an audio store, and the headphones started to sound bad (I didn’t like the sound of any of the devices I listened to in the store). After that, I broke them in again using the laptop, hoping the sound would fully recover, but that didn’t happen. During subsequent break-in sessions, they sound better or worse depending on the music I’m using to break them in. The local service center didn’t find any issues with them (they only measured the frequency response and compared it to a reference) and said there was nothing else they could do to help. So essentially, the problem isn’t with the frequency response, but with something else. I asked them to measure the transient response, but they said they didn’t have the necessary software for that.

Right now, the headphones sound very muddy, with very slow attacks in the low and mid frequencies; the detail has also dropped significantly, and they sound very muffled in the mid frequencies around 500 Hz. And they began to sound harsh at high frequencies. Their soundstage has also deteriorated, making it difficult to tell exactly how far away things are. Separation has also deteriorated significantly. Additionally, the frequency response doesn’t feel even.

Visually, the headphones look fine - there are no visible signs of damage.

Please let me know exactly what caused this and if it can be fixed in any way.
(I’ve already posted about this on Reddit in a few places, but it’s been about a month now and I haven’t received any helpful information, so I’m really counting on your help)

 

[Apeiron]

Welcome!

I'm not all that qualified to help, but considering the pros have yet to comment, I thought I'd mention a few things, if only to in the hope that it will draw in some of ASR's experts.

First off, don't let manufacturers mislead you: there's generally no such thing as hardware break-in. Switching between laptop and dedicated DAC/amp is not gonna bake in a different sound signature into your headphones.

What is real however is brain burn-in: over time, we get used to a transducer's sound signature. Let me give you a quick anecdote from personal experience:

Some time ago, my earpads wore out and I replaced them with a different product and material (cloth vs. leather). This noticeably impacted the bass response in a way I wasn't happy with. I tried fixing it by cutting down my EQ shelves, but the more I tinkered, the more I started to resent my headphones. I even imagined the highs to have gotten worse (which I now doubt). Fast forward a couple weeks: not only did I get used to the new sound (to whatever extent it actually changed), I also went back to my original EQ settings with only minor tweaks, and I'm once again happy with my headphones.

sound quality deteriorated significantly and has not recovered for over seven months

As you pointed out, with frequency response unchanged, what else could even be the cause? Perhaps you just started noticing the quirks inherent to this headphone model?

Then I listened to various DACs and amplifiers at an audio store, and the headphones started to sound bad

I wouldn't underestimate psychological factors: we are more relaxed and comfortable listening at home as compared to listening in a store: noise, distractions, feeling rushed, etc. But one issue identified with the Clears is their variable impedance, shooting up in the bass from 60 Ω to 342 Ω (Clear) and 536 Ω (Clear Pro). Played through a high-impedance amp (perhaps some boutique tube amp?), this will indeed cause audible differences in bass response. Check the output resistance graphic in Solderdude's review to see the effect (about 5 dB).


In the ASR reviews of the original Clear and Clear Pro, Amir identified significant issues which made him disrecommend both. According to measurements on Squiglink, frequency reponses of Clear and Clear MG are very, very close to each other, which makes me believe that the internals and their quirks are also present in the new model to some extent.

During subsequent break-in sessions, they sound better or worse depending on the music I’m using to break them in

Amir identified the following issues: "too much between 600 and 1600 Hz / peaks above 10k / strangeness around 1.2 to 3k / lacking bass and 4-5 kHz energy". He also noted a lack of headroom, causing the drivers to distort/crackle at higher levels (which may also affect how well they take to EQ).

Different types of music will highlight quirks in different frequency areas,, so what I believe may have happened here is that you started to sour on the Clears once you honed in on some of the quirks mentioned above.

 

[gzost]

Break in/burn in for audio components is not real. The chance that you damaged the Clears mechanically through a listening session at low volumes is next to non-existent, and if you had then the result would me more than a change in sound - think high distortion, crackling or the like.

So what remains as the most likely option is that the differences you hear are not based on there being any actual difference with the Clears.. Our hearing is easily influenced by external and internal factors and our echotic memory is weak and brief. So the reason for hearing issues with the headphones may range from you only now noticing some aspect of their sound that you previously ignored to your fear of having damaged the headphones leading to you hearing problems.

 

[LTig]

To make it a bit shorter:

• Nobody disputes what you heard and experienced (don't get this wrong).
• Human hearing experience relies not only on the ears, but also on the eyes (what you see), your mood, knowledge about the hardware and the music, what you did read in mags or in the internet, hidden clues by people around you. It is called unconscious bias. That's why its impossible to rely on auditory experiences without proper controls (level matched to below 0.1 dB, blind or double blind[1]) which is the only way (sadly) to circumvent the bias.
• Professional experience does not change this, rather the opposite. Research has shown that audiophiles have less reliable results comparing devices in controlled listening tests than most other groups of people.
• The same is true when your friend listens to your headphone.
• Frequency response indeed doesn’t tell the whole story. There is also distortion. But nothing which cannot be measured.
• If a controlled test shows that one device sounds different than another this can always be proven through measurements. They are much more precise then human hearing. Electronic usually is transparent, exception are devices which are poorly designed or purposely designed for a specific sound signature.
• Headphones (and speakers) with variable impedance do sound different when driven by amplifiers with high output impedance - the frequency response changes from flat to one a bit similar to the impedance curve. This is one reason why people prefer tube power amps because of the resulting loudness effect.
• Break in is a myth. Changes in speaker sound stabilize within a few seconds, same should be true for headphones. Electronics and cables have no break in at all.
  Now, you wrote that you did break the headphones in for about 3 hours a week. If you used too high volume level you may have damaged the drivers, especially as they have a very limited excursion.

I know that it is difficult and hard to accept that ones hearing is unreliable. You really have to take part in a few controlled listening tests to experience how differences heard non blind magically disappear when heard blind. Been there, done that.

[1]: blind means not knowing which device you listen to. Double blind means that the person who switches between different devices doesn't know either, to prevent the hidden clues.

 

[Redacted]

Your headphones have either been damaged slightly or your (collective) ears have been! Could be leads or connectors...
I doubt any testing at dealers etc, is going to prove a fault - I suspect only the factory or authorized repair centre will be able to tell.

I'm glad that I use cheap phones, as it would upset me if costly ones had a problem!

 

[LTig]

[..]
My friend and I used to conduct blind tests together quite often (about 1–4 times a month). I did it to confirm my conclusions; he just did it out of curiosity. They didn’t go exactly as you described. It wasn’t a double-blind test, but a more standard one. However, the other person couldn’t do anything because all he did was play songs from the beginning on different players or DAWs that I had prepared in advance. For example: when we tested three programs - Foobar, Reaper, and Ableton - whose sound differences I know very well, using the same music that I also know well, with no changes to the volume. And my friend simply played each of these programs in turn from the very beginning in the order he received from a name randomizer (I didn’t know the order). Every time the music was suitable for comparison, I could confidently identify the player I was listening to in the test after just about 10–15 seconds from the start of the songs.

OK, this is another topic and not related to your headphone.

I’m currently working on a big audio project where I figured out why all players and DAWs sound different. It would take forever to explain, so I’ll simplify it and say that sound quality is mainly influenced by internal Windows processes, which can be indirectly controlled. I never get the feeling that something has changed or is off if everything is okay; every time that happens, it always turns out that I did something wrong somewhere or something like that.

It is quite possible that different players sound different if they do manipulate the data, or use different sound drivers which manipulate the data in different ways. All of this can be measured, of course. Since your experience sounds reasonable and other people would surely profit I'd like you to perform those measurements. The best way would be to catch the output of the different players digitally (before the DAC). I don't know how to do this on Windows. You can also use a USB sound interface with SPDIF I/O in loop back mode. Just run free audacity to capture the same piece of music played by different players (and listen through the interfaces headphone output to make sure differences are audible), and then use the DeltaWave Null test (by member @pkane) to show the differences. Or just publish the rips in a cloud storage for others to check.

 

[Redacted]

Overload? Mains spike feeding through dodgy gear/dodgy mains? Plugging in and out affecting leads and jack plugs? Hard to say.....

 

[Redacted]

Just for a test, buy some £20 IEMs to compare - at least you can rule out everything else in the chain and maybe prove the 'phones are kaput. So cheap, you can give them away afterwards, if they don't suit you.

 

[LTig]

Regarding music players and DAWs: if you measure the output data, you'll get identical results down to the last bit. If I were to explain how it works, it would take too long.

You could get a noble prize if you could explain how identical digital data fed to the same DAC sound different depending on the source.

Of course, it can be measured, but not that way.

Please let us not sit in the dark.