I am installing three KEF in-wall units for my HT. Each has four 6-inch drivers. That is equivalent to a
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Fluid Audio Image 2 Review (Monitor Speaker)
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uwotm8
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Effective area must be equal to 12" actually not 15"
There are so many variables at work that generates distortion that we cannot know exactly. However, we know that distortion will increase by the inverse of the power of three of the frequency (1/f^3) as that correlates roughly the stress applied to the cone.
The distortion level difference between the two speakers are below for us to see: 2% vs off-the-chart at 50Hz and 0.5% vs 3% at 60Hz.
Now note the text on the charts, which are @amirm's subjective notes. They show how important not to rely on subjectivity and what an important work ASR doing to us.
The notes say: Fluid Audio is “excellent” and the Neuman is just “very clean.” However we can see clearly from the charts that this is really not the case, in fact it is the opposite. Neuman is cleaner even at 10dB louder.
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DSJR
Major Contributor
Me for one!!!
I used to like to FEEL my music. came into the higher end in 1974 via big IMF transmission lines and the pressure waves in my ears created by the heartbeat on Dark Side of the Moon off a Dolby A master tape copy (i started high and it was downhill ever since Can't have big boxes now, but the wonderful memories remain...
DSJR
Major Contributor
My son was always usually well behaved, but like his dad (cough) always attracted to things like this and one way to provoke my reaction when aged three, he deliberately poked my tweeters and a midrange dome/dust cover on my then ATC 20ASL Pro's (curvy cabs and no grilles of course). He did it twice and got the usual stern reaction from me, but the third time, I made as if I was crying (I was inside but that's by the by). He said 'Sorry' and meant it and never touched them again.Well, that's all about perception.
In my opinion, if in these days and age you make black/gray square block loudspeaker and claim acoustic superiority - you've learned nothing. As aesthetic appeal to older audience - i can understand the urge.
I have children 5 and 7 and a bunch of different speakers around and never had a single problem. I payed attention what they did and prevent accidents when they were younger. Now they just want to play their child songs through system and amplifier is much more interesting to them than speakers. Turn to knob, it goes louder
So, if your children have kept away, I'd say good on you, but it's not always so sweet. I'd also add that a tall narrow box like the LS60 could also risk being toppled over unless you place them in undesirable? corners with larger dogs or children around..
I'm sure the LS60's will prove a game changing godsend in the domestic market, but may take a few years to catch on in the more 'audiophool' segments (the LS50 is disliked a lot as a 'HiFi' uncommunicative way it seems in the circles I look in on). I'll stick to old fashioned boxes for now (or maybe a cheap used pair of Beolab 6000's if I absolutely have to in future, which had (and needed) active bass eq right from launch over thirty years ago.
You are correct. I should have used a calculator instead of doing it mentally. Not a good idea at 72! However, my "larger than any subwoofer on the market" phrase still stands
4x 6" drivers: 28.27 x 4 = 113.08 inches^2 equivalent to a 12” driver
3x of the above = 339.24 inches^2 larger than a 20” driver.
Area = π x r^2
6" driver: 28.27 inches^2 for 3" radius
12" driver: 113.09 inches^2 for 6" radius
15" driver: 176.71 inches^2 for 7.5" radius
20" driver: 314.16 inches^2 for 10" radius
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Me for one!!!
Can't have big boxes now, but the wonderful memories remain...
Assuming this is within your budget but the $14,000 (inflation!) Dutch & Dutch 8C reviewed by @hardisj is one of the very few small box speakers (LOL if you consider a 20 inch high 57lb monitor "small") that uses physics + DSP to extend bass so that you can FEEL the music. For all my music needs, when I retire and liquidate excess gear, this is my endgame one and done speaker without a need for subwoofer.
2x18" !!! What sort of content are you listening? I have a 2x18 sub (JTR 4000) in nearfield but this is 100% for home theater in order to accurately assess movie content. I definitely agree that multiple subs are always better when circumstances allow.
2x18" for my living room. DIY, I like some headroom and sensitive subs, easy to drive.
In my home theater only 21"
Sarumbear,
Mental maths and calculators is great, however...
A 6.5" driver, subtracting the frame and half the surround, has the Sd of about 5" diameter circle.
~140cm^2 = 22 inch^2
A 12" driver, subtracting the frame and half the surround, has the Sd of about 10" diameter circle.
~500cm^2 = 80 inch^2.
You’re also missing excursion. Perhaps this was (un)intentional. Either way, Sd times x-max = Vd, that is, volume displacement, is what determines SPL at low frequencies. And larger drivers tend to have longer excursion. 15" drivers with over an inch of linear x-max have existed for about a decade now, but a 6.5"? No chance. So the bigger drivers even have more of an advantage.
Some data:
Over two hundred 12" drivers with over 1/2 inch of x-max.
Only three 6.5" driver have over 1/2 inch of x-max.
In fact, most 6.5" drivers have about 5-7 mm x-max. There are some contenders in the last decade that have about 7-10mm Klippel verified excursion, but they are still the minority.
So all up, you need about SIX 6.5" drivers to match ONE 12" driver. Conservatively.
Your Silver 5L, or half a dozen 6.5" by KEF, mounted in wall might sound good enough, particularly at lower volumes that do not to disturb apartment neighbors (my 2019 apartment neighbors complained about our kids "playing in (talking in) the elevator"), and said "Oh, who practices the piano?"
But a handful of (1)8" drivers with long excursion? Well instead of white gloves in the welcome package- send hair ties: prepare your customers to get their hairs blown back...
OK you can say you don't have space for a 18".
Well load up on the 8" or 10" woofers.
That's what KEF does with their biggest and best speakers eg.
Muon : six 12" (described correctly as 250mm units) per speaker
KEF Blade 1 : quad 8" per speaker
KEF Blade 2 : quad 6.5" per speaker
Mental maths and calculators is great, however...
A 6.5" driver, subtracting the frame and half the surround, has the Sd of about 5" diameter circle.
~140cm^2 = 22 inch^2
A 12" driver, subtracting the frame and half the surround, has the Sd of about 10" diameter circle.
~500cm^2 = 80 inch^2.
You’re also missing excursion. Perhaps this was (un)intentional. Either way, Sd times x-max = Vd, that is, volume displacement, is what determines SPL at low frequencies. And larger drivers tend to have longer excursion. 15" drivers with over an inch of linear x-max have existed for about a decade now, but a 6.5"? No chance. So the bigger drivers even have more of an advantage.
Some data:
Over two hundred 12" drivers with over 1/2 inch of x-max.
Only three 6.5" driver have over 1/2 inch of x-max.
In fact, most 6.5" drivers have about 5-7 mm x-max. There are some contenders in the last decade that have about 7-10mm Klippel verified excursion, but they are still the minority.
So all up, you need about SIX 6.5" drivers to match ONE 12" driver. Conservatively.
Your Silver 5L, or half a dozen 6.5" by KEF, mounted in wall might sound good enough, particularly at lower volumes that do not to disturb apartment neighbors (my 2019 apartment neighbors complained about our kids "playing in (talking in) the elevator"), and said "Oh, who practices the piano?"
But a handful of (1)8" drivers with long excursion? Well instead of white gloves in the welcome package- send hair ties: prepare your customers to get their hairs blown back...
OK you can say you don't have space for a 18".
Well load up on the 8" or 10" woofers.
That's what KEF does with their biggest and best speakers eg.
Muon : six 12" (described correctly as 250mm units) per speaker
KEF Blade 1 : quad 8" per speaker
KEF Blade 2 : quad 6.5" per speaker
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I have woofers on my LCR speakers that is equivalent to your 21” sub plus subs of course. Large drive units are like 57 Cadillacs. They look awesome but can’t compete with a modern hatchback.2x18" for my living room. DIY, I like some headroom and sensitive subs, easy to drive.
In my home theater only 21"
With respect, but I think my B&C 21"pro drivers are no comparison to your 4 KEF midbase woofers. First it's apples and pears, second, these pro drivers are built for extreme output and originally not intended for living room use.
It seems you missed the BH augmentors
SILVER BH
Low Frequency Driver: 250mm (10″) paper coned (doped), rubber surround, injected moulded magnesium chassis that acts on a 2nd order band-pass filter together with the low-pass type box.
It does have DSP and will be able to be updated through firmware. They also plan to incorporate room correction at some point, too.
The sound is generated by the cone irrespective of what fruit it is made of
Nor the manufacturers intention is a criteria on the sound output. Most likely it effects life span but that’s not our topic, is it?
Yeah, it sucks for us in the States. Almost $1200 difference.
I seriously doubt that those woofers will match a B&C 21-inch driver
DMill
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Great Review. I never owned an active speaker beyond a Sonos Roam in my kitchen, but I'm starting to really believe they are the wave of the future. I blame this site for costing me thousands of dollars on something I don't need when I finally buy a pair.
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