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Fluid Audio Image 2 Review (Monitor Speaker)

Holmz

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The test made on the monitors.

86 db is my monitor SPL level for “club alike” rendering .

96 db is not even thinkable and that would require ear plugs.

Most people mix between 73 and 80 db spl at their listening spot in their studios.

Much lower for the most part.

Anything else higher then 85 db spl is starting to be ear damaging on the long run and we run sessions for 12 and 16 hours regularly when we are active .

With a typical crest factor of 13 dB, then the 96 dB peaks happening when the RMS SPL is in the 83 dB range.
Of one wants 90dB SPL out of the speaker then it is in the 100dB+ range.

But if that 96dB speaker is defined as being at 1M, and the listener is in a big room away from the speakers… then they are not by definition walking out deaf and dumb. They may only be hearing an 80dB SPL.

In the club at 96dB, those speakers are usually a ways away, and there output at 1M is more likely in the 110dB range.
Similarly it is louder at a concert when one is nearer the speaker stack.
 
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With a typical crest factor of 13 dB, then the 96 dB peaks happening when the RMS SPL is in the 83 dB range.
Of one wants 90dB SPL out of the speaker then it is in the 100dB+ range.

But if that 96dB speaker is defined as being at 1M, and the listener is in a big room away from the speakers… then they are not by definition walking out deaf and dumb. They may only be hearing an 80dB SPL.

In the club at 96dB, those speakers are usually a ways away, and there output at 1M is more likely in the 110dB range.
Similarly it is louder at a concert when one is nearer the speaker stack.

So those graphics (the 86 db and 96 db) are respectively expressing a 73 and 83 dBa SPL at which distance? 1 cm from the tweeter?

Not that it really matter cause I can assure you that there is not a 13 db loss at a 1.5 m distance but there is a small loss and I don't think I really listen to my monitors at 73 dba at 1 cm from the tweeter at a 1.5m distance. That would be too quiet for full range impression and too loud for level riding and compression referencing.

I can sometime raise my monitors to 83 dba at ear level to get that serious club punch.

And I'm not saying that this is what you are saying. I'm not here to bicker but to learn. I just don't understand,which is why I'm asking.

But thanks for explaining further, if you feel like it obviously. I'm very curious about what you are saying right now.
 
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Robbo99999

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You folks just have to be clear about distance from speaker(s) when you quote dB listening levels. One of my listening positions is nearly 3m away from my studio monitors (JBL's), and the loudest I ever set my speakers to is 84.5dB at 1kHz for a 0dB sine sweep at that 3m listening position.

You can work out how listening position distance will theoretically effect your measured sound level:
Decibels of Change=20xlog(distance 1/distance 2)

So using that formula if you go from a 1m listening distance to a 3m listening distance then you get 20xlog(1/3) = -9.5dB

Distortion measurements here on ASR are 1 speaker at 1 metre. So I'd add 9.5dB to the 84.5dB to convert my speakers from 3m down to 1m if they are left at the same settings, which would make 94dB at 1m for two speakers. Then to go from two speakers to one speaker you remove 3dB, because doubling the sound source (if they're the same) gives you 3dB, so I end up with 91dB at 1m for one speaker. So the main point is that distance is an important factor, and I've given you the formula there (in bold) to theoretically calculate sound level differences at different distances.
 
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Holmz

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So those graphics (the 86 db and 96 db) are respectively expressing a 73 and 83 dBa SPL at which distance? 1 cm from the tweeter?

Not that it really matter cause I can assure you that there is not a 13 db loss at a 1.5 m distance but there is a small loss and I don't think I really listen to my monitors at 73 dba at 1 cm from the tweeter at a 1.5m distance. That would be too quiet for full range impression and too loud for level riding and compression referencing.
The peak power to RMS power is.was ~13 typically.
Less with compression wars.


I can sometime raise my monitors to 83 dba at ear level to get that serious club punch.
83 dB(A) RMS is pretty loud.
dB(A) and dB(C) are different, so itr is best to put the band in the dB reference.

And I'm not saying that this is what you are saying. I'm not here to bicker but to learn. I just don't understand,which is why I'm asking.

But thanks for explaining further, if you feel like it obviously. I'm very curious about what you are saying right now.
Speakers almost always are rated at 1W/1meter, which is really 2.77v.
(And then there rush was on to lower impedance and make a hungry speaker look sensitive,and they went from 8phms to 4 ohms.)

When we go to 2M we loose 3dB from the 1M because a sphere has an area of r*r, so the pressure goes down by 1/r*r.

Every time we double the distance we loose 3dB so 4M(~13;) is ~6dB down.

When they test a speaker at 96dB at 1M, it is like whaty the peaks of the sound is doing.
The RMS would ~83dB and if it are 13’ back that is down to 77dB.

Hence it matter when the volume knob goes up.
 

fineMen

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...
When we go to 2M we loose 3dB from the 1M because a sphere has an area of r*r, so the pressure goes down by 1/r*r.
...
Wasn't it 6dB for anechoic conditions?

Anyway, a studio may behave differently than a 'club'. The latter would have reflective surfaces, and less reflective people all around, the former would have some room-acoustics but who knows which exactly--and at which distance the 'club's intensity would be required? I can't see the point in using this little nightingale for energizing a club. Think of the cost of initial purchase and subsequent maintenance ;-)
 

Holmz

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Wasn't it 6dB for anechoic conditions?

(Crap…) and “Well done sir!”… it IS 20log10
So it is worse than I thought, but the two speakers bumps it back 3dB. (Or is it 6dB)…



Anyway, a studio may behave differently than a 'club'. The latter would have reflective surfaces, and less reflective people all around, the former would have some room-acoustics but who knows which exactly--and at which distance the 'club's intensity would be required? I can't see the point in using this little nightingale for energizing a club. Think of the cost of initial purchase and subsequent maintenance ;-)

Bottom line is if they are dying at 96dB(A), then they will not be great in a large space, with a large listening distance… and with it just a modestly loud.
 

Robbo99999

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(Crap…) and “Well done sir!”… it IS 20log10
So it is worse than I thought, but the two speakers bumps it back 3dB. (Or is it 6dB)…





Bottom line is if they are dying at 96dB(A), then they will not be great in a large space, with a large listening distance… and with it just a modestly loud.
Yes, I already mentioned it here re distance formula:
I also mention there that two speakers from one speaker is an additional 3dB.
 

heflys20

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I thought it was kinda amusing how they didn't post the SoS review on their facebook page like all the other glowing ones. I guess it was too negative. LOL.
 

VenVile

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According to Fluid audio's Facebook, the units sent to SoS were pre production versions, and the voicing issue has been resolved. Same thing happened with the Fpx7.

My thing with that is, why send them a pre-production unit for a review that is to be published? That's silly.

Or, if you have to go that route, ensure that they know it's a pre-production unit, and that it be mentioned or noted in the review. Still, going that route it just silly.
 

heflys20

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My thing with that is, why send them a pre-production unit for a review that is to be published? That's silly.

Or, if you have to go that route, ensure that they know it's a pre-production unit, and that it be mentioned or noted in the review. Still, going that route it just silly.
I definitely think it's some BS. LOL. It's likely just a reaction to a negative review; particularly one with measurements. That's why I love brands like Genelec and Neumann, since they (mostly) provide all the scientific data about their speakers.
 

lewdish

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Since these are now being shown at NAMM 2023 does this mean that they re-sent amir the final version? Did Amir ever get back to re-measuring?
 

sweetchaos

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Erin has measured these...
I'm guessing the production version?

1698899461087.png

source

Here's Amir's prototype sample (from post #1):
index.php
 

Knightfal

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I see these are now on "super" sale at Thomann, probably a promo they did.

And shipping world wide as I can see is pretty good. 2 units to California as an example is $157 with UPS so total $2795 for a pair.
 
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