Nice.
However, my strong suggestion is to look at speakers which have been measured and not by subjective opinions/reviews... Everything gets a good review.
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Floor-standing under $3k?
- Thread starter thefsb
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My sub is a B&W PV1d and is part of my main system with Quad 2805 electrostats. The combination with the Harbeth P3ESRs from my study was just an experiment, but one that sounded spectacularly good even though it did not quite fill the large main listening room. Adding the sub taught me that room modes are a real issue (the audiophile press never told me so) and an Antimode 8033 dsp room eq unit helped a lot. Even so I think buying at least two small subs (plus the Antimode) would have been a better idea than the single rather expensive sub that I bought. So I am now saving for a second sub.
I think getting at least two subs and adding dsp room eq is the key. Alan March posted some highly revealing graphs on the Harbeth user group.
I think getting at least two subs and adding dsp room eq is the key. Alan March posted some highly revealing graphs on the Harbeth user group.
thumbslapper
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Go to as many hifi dealers as you can and listen to all in your price range (+25%) and something will pop out at you. Ideally have them setup the amp you use as well (if they carry it), and listen to non-data-compressed music, ideally something in 24/96, and in all the genre's you listen to.
I just went thru this exercise and listened to PSB Imagine T2, Triangle, Dynaudio, B&W 6,7,8, KEF, DefTech, Spendor, and finally Revel F206, which is what I went with (should be arriving tomorrow!). It was above my iniital budget of $2k but since I am going to live with them for 15+ years I was ok with stretching the budget... they do show up used on Audiogon as well.
Some dealers are way better then others, and my biggest complaint with Revel was 8 out of 10 Revel dealers were "installers", which means they dont have a showroom to actually listen to the speakers (I found a great dealer in the end). I tried to listen to Monitor Audio Silver 300's but was not able to find a dealer that I could actually go listen to - I live in a metro area of >10m people (bay area) & could not listen to their freakin speakers.
I just went thru this exercise and listened to PSB Imagine T2, Triangle, Dynaudio, B&W 6,7,8, KEF, DefTech, Spendor, and finally Revel F206, which is what I went with (should be arriving tomorrow!). It was above my iniital budget of $2k but since I am going to live with them for 15+ years I was ok with stretching the budget... they do show up used on Audiogon as well.
Some dealers are way better then others, and my biggest complaint with Revel was 8 out of 10 Revel dealers were "installers", which means they dont have a showroom to actually listen to the speakers (I found a great dealer in the end). I tried to listen to Monitor Audio Silver 300's but was not able to find a dealer that I could actually go listen to - I live in a metro area of >10m people (bay area) & could not listen to their freakin speakers.
Rja4000
Major Contributor
I found the Focal Aria 948 at $3500 for the pair at first dealer I checked.
Other models are cheaper, for sure.
Next down in the line is the 936, which they sale for $2800 for the pair.
Still worth a try, I think.
I chose the Aria in my own listening tests, compared with models up to 10k€ a pair (from Dali, B&W, Kef, PMC, Triangle, ...)
They were the cheapest and the one I enjoyed the most.
Imagine there is zero Revel dealer, here in France...
Rja4000
Major Contributor
Never seen one in Belgium either.Imagine there is zero Revel dealer, here in France...
Well, when I was very young, I've been working as a dealer in an Hi-Fi shop, and we had JBL at the time.
That was in... wait a minute... 1985!
Wasn't even born.
Depends on what youre looking for op. Personally, I don't go with these brands as they are overrated, they test poorly, (this is an audio science site and the diy section of avs does test speaker components) and I'd never waste my money on this.
Jtr speakers is about as far as I'd go as they actually are giving you high end components in a proven build design.
After that, there are too many proven good diy designs to go with a black box, most likely untested design with over stated specs.
If you want the easiest testing result differences to see just head over to databass website, a website of subwoofers. Hsu, svs, all those lame too brands are at the low end. The most basic Dayton 18 build gives you amazing performance, before you venture into more "crazy territory" that's still cheaper than these poor performance branded junk.
The only reason I'm on this forum currently is because I can't build the speakers I want to replace my mains with, so I decided to learn about the headphone game and bankroll that money towards a diy design. I want to use the brand new, 21 inch "affordable" woofers in mains....
Jtr speakers is about as far as I'd go as they actually are giving you high end components in a proven build design.
After that, there are too many proven good diy designs to go with a black box, most likely untested design with over stated specs.
If you want the easiest testing result differences to see just head over to databass website, a website of subwoofers. Hsu, svs, all those lame too brands are at the low end. The most basic Dayton 18 build gives you amazing performance, before you venture into more "crazy territory" that's still cheaper than these poor performance branded junk.
The only reason I'm on this forum currently is because I can't build the speakers I want to replace my mains with, so I decided to learn about the headphone game and bankroll that money towards a diy design. I want to use the brand new, 21 inch "affordable" woofers in mains....
oivavoi
Major Contributor
This is an important point. But going over to the Wharfedale site and looking at their specs, there are several things here which indicate good engineering and potentially good measurements to me:
- probably broad and even dispersion all the way up, as there's a small mid dome which plays from 1.3 to 4.7 khz, and an AMT tweeter with broad dispersion above that. This means no beaming when we approach the crossover frequencies, because the drivers are smaller than the wavelengths they are asked to reproduce
- most of the most sensitive range in our hearing is kept crossover-free
- edges are rounded, i.e. less diffraction
- cabinet seems well-constructed
Personally I also really like ribbon or AMT tweeters, but opinions here vary.
Wharfedale has also made speakers for a long time, and this seems to be a refinement of a previous top-of-the-line design. All in all, I would totally expect this speaker to sound good, unless they somehow managed to muck something up.
That's the whole game.... You don't know. You just trust that because they have been doing it a long time, it must be good. It took me awhile to understand too. Thankfully avsforum diy section helped as the general speaker section is just the normal subjective "I spent $2k so it must be good!"
Your expectation that it will sound good, that alone, when you have zero evidence of the inner workings of the speaker or the actual parts used, that's how these guys charge outrageous prices for meh products. One guy charges $2k for a sub based off a $300 woofer, and that's not even a bad deal considering all the other companies use WORSE subwoofers.
This is why I'm here. I can't "assume" anything. All these dap companies have been making daps for years and still SUCK. Your trust is a companies easy profit. No thanks.
oivavoi
Major Contributor
Yeah, of course I don't know for sure. But we do know quite a bit about which principles for speaker design often correlate with subjective perceptions of fidelity. The big ones are flat frequency response on-axis, broad and even dispersion off-axis, and bass extension - those things go a long way. There are very few speakers which exhibit good behavior off-axis. Those that do often employ wave-guides, but that restricts dispersion, so there is an inherent trade-off against another thing people often like (broad dispersion). This speaker - based on nothing else than what we know of its construction - has the potential to be better behaved off-axis than most other speakers that don't employ a wave-guide. This statement is not based on gullible trust of the manufacturer. In fact they don't write anything about off-axis response at all on their website. It is based on established acoustic principles and known practices for loudspeaker design. (see Roy Allison's AES paper "To beam or not to beam", for example)
The big "if" here is the behavior of the 2-inch mid-dome. Does it have flat response? How about non-linearities in the driver? Given that it's - quite stupidly - a passive speaker, they are stuck with the behaviour of the driver itself. But as long as the mid-dome has reasonably flat and good behaviour, I can't see any reason why this wouldn't sound good (except for the fact that they insist on making it passive).
I’m waiting for someone to measure those. Their previous flagship line, Jade, measured pretty dang well (at least <10kHz; but that’s what EQ is for), which is one reason I recently got a used Jade 5, wish they were higher sensitivty, but I find no faults in their sound after EQ.
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oivavoi
Major Contributor
Wow! Pretty, pretty, pretty good.
Why don't more manufacturers use a smaller midrange cone or dome? it seems so obvious once you start to think about it.
Because the average consumer thinks bigger is better.
Pick up a pair of used Revel F206s and call it a day.
My used Revel F206s have arrived. They are excellent speakers, definitely up there with the best I’ve heard. I don’t think they’re better in sound quality than the Ascend RAAL Towers, but I like the Revel’s sound signature more in that there‘s more bass and mid-bass energy.
If you’re planning to run your towers full range without a subwoofer, then I definitely recommend the Revel F206 over the Ascend Sierra RAAL Towers, simply because there is much more bass presence and extension. The difference is obvious even by putting your hand near the woofers or port of each, where you can feel much more air being moved by the Revel’s larger woofers.
If you’re going to pair with a subwoofer, it’s a much more tough comparison and (subjectively at least) I think the Sierra RAAL Towers might have an edge over the Revels in sound quality and clarity. But it’s hard to say, which is why I plan on doing blind tests between them.
If you’re planning to run your towers full range without a subwoofer, then I definitely recommend the Revel F206 over the Ascend Sierra RAAL Towers, simply because there is much more bass presence and extension. The difference is obvious even by putting your hand near the woofers or port of each, where you can feel much more air being moved by the Revel’s larger woofers.
If you’re going to pair with a subwoofer, it’s a much more tough comparison and (subjectively at least) I think the Sierra RAAL Towers might have an edge over the Revels in sound quality and clarity. But it’s hard to say, which is why I plan on doing blind tests between them.
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I wonder what the crowd thinks of this deal: Used Thiel CS 3.6.
OP
thefsb
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The measurements of that box are very impressive.
I like the idea of direct sales and support from the manufacturer, it's how we do business in my company, but it seems the cost of auditioning the speakers is that of return shipping. How much is that likely to be?
And the web site is lovely. A very 90s vibe. Even has a page explaining how good the web site is.
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