Flare Audio Immerse ear inserts??

[cavedriver]

Recently had this new product pushed to me on fb. It is an ear insert that purportedly takes incoming sound and reflects it directly to the inner ear without the distortion created by our outer ear. A quick ASR search shows no one discussing it yet. If what this company is claiming is true this should be an area of very interesting research when it comes to the science of how we hear and whether it's possible and worth it to improve on it. Said another way, if all normal human perception of music throughout history has included a ~20% distortion component from our ears that our brain has been attempting to cancel out, would removing that distortion have caused us to build different instruments and perceive natural sounds differently over the years? Do IEM's essentially do the same thing such that we've already been experiencing this effect?

What I don't see is much science about this on their web page. While Flare seems to have been making related devices for some time leading up to this, the actual science from their research would help imo:

Immerse®

The world’s first in-ear technology that makes ALL music sound more immersive. Wear under headphones or in open listening environments to take your sound experience to a whole new level.

www.flareaudio.com

 

[antcollinet]

Looks like snake oil to me.

 

[Saponetto]

So, technically, should it be an artificial pinna?

 

[Leejb1970]

Thoughts?

Immerse®

The world’s first in-ear technology that makes ALL music sound more immersive. Wear under headphones or in open listening environments to take your sound experience to a whole new level.

www.flareaudio.com

 

[storing]

So basic premise is that the ear's frequency response isn't flat because of its physical shape and they compensate for this. Yet they also say themselves the brain already compensates for this. So using their product will, erm, do what exactly? Don't get me wrong, the basic idea and physics of it might make sense, but it would be interesting to first figure out if this is needed/wanted in the first place, let alone a single device would have the same effect in all persons. Apart from that, it's hard to take this serious because of the sheer amount of buzzwords.

 

[LIΟN]

Immerse is for everyone as it creates a universal listening experience that unifies artists, producers, engineers and fans so that everyone hears precisely what the artist intended. We believe that amazing sound quality should be inclusive, not limited to those who can afford expensive equipment.

Hmm...
It might be their patent, but I haven’t been able to find any related information or papers about it in AES paper things yet.
Especially the phrase "the artist's intent"... That made me lose interest.

 

[Galliardist]

So much for "trust your ears"?

This sounds like nonsense to me. At best, it appears to just detail (even if they call it harshness) between 2kHz and 8kHz by their own description. And what happens if I pick the wrong song?

 

[LIΟN]

So much for "trust your ears"?

This sounds like nonsense to me. At best, it appears to just detail (even if they call it harshness) between 2kHz and 8kHz by their own description. And what happens if I pick the wrong song?

Their prototype IEM seems to have taken this form, and I’ve been translating and reading reviews about it from various sites, but I’m not entirely sure.

Most impressions seem to align with the typical experience of deep insertion fits, like those of Etymotic or custom CIEMs. Of course, I can’t speak to what the company means by "mirror image." ---> Any IEM with that level of insertion depth would provide almost the same listening experience (even putting aside the technical aspects).
That’s why I found this design somewhat puzzling.

However, aside from the IEMs, the product below is said to be usable for headphones and speakers as well.

It is said to eliminate resonance by up to 21 dB.
On YouTube, I also saw mentions of "removing HRTF."
What could that possibly mean? - or Why would they want to remove it? I don’t quite understand.

 

[staticV3]

On YouTube, I also saw mentions of "removing HRTF."
What could that possibly mean?

It means that this device bypasses your outer ear, removes it from the equation.

 

[Galliardist]

It is said to eliminate resonance by up to 21 dB.
On YouTube, I also saw mentions of "removing HRTF."
What could that possibly mean?

Essentially, it is changing your hearing. Is that a good thing, really? Hence my comment about "trusting your ears". This is by definition the opposite.

It may well do some of the things claimed for it. I guess on a "science" forum we can look at evidence. On the other hand, I find myself immediately philosophically opposed to the idea.

 

[LIΟN]

ssentially, it is changing your hearing. Is that a good thing, really? Hence my comment about "trusting your ears". This is by definition the opposite.

It may well do some of the things claimed for it. I guess on a "science" forum we can look at evidence. On the other hand, I find myself immediately philosophically opposed to the idea.

Yes. So, I was reading the reviews on their website one by one, and the impressions about the sound perception made me think (especially when considering the form and depth of the prototype IEM) that it might be coming from the deep insertion fit. But I'm not sure.
Also, I agree with your opinion. That's why I wrote that I don't understand.

It means that this device bypasses your outer ear, removes it from the equation.

Hmm.......................
I understand the intent and the content, but I still don’t fully understand why they are trying to bypass or remove it.
Though we all have different ages, over the decades, our brains have effectively calibrated our individual hearing and the personalized characteristics of our bodies, and we have accumulated data. I don’t understand why they would want to simply eliminate or reduce that.


Perhaps my personal values regarding IEMs and headphones might be influencing my perspective here.
The reason I’m questioning this is that, to me, IEMs/headphones are simply playback devices that deliver sound to my ears, rather than something with distinct characteristics of their own. I listen to sound as it is by applying proper error correction and an equalized compensation curve to each IEM/headphone through personalized binaural room recordings to hear sound exactly as it is in reality.
But this is where I’m somewhat confused. What they’re saying is that they’re removing this process, right?
If that's the case, wouldn't it conflict with the data accumulated in my brain, and some information might actually be lost? (I’m not sure if I saw this on YouTube or on the website, but they mentioned that they remove resonance without boosting it.)

 

[LIΟN]

I also received these images while talking with other binaural users.

I heard an interesting suggestion that it might be more efficient to listen to speakers like this by creating a silicone waveguide. (for To exaggerate or maximize the HRTF.)
Of course, since I still don't know about the products from that company, I can only speculate, but after further thought, my conclusion so far is "Hmm... "

 

[storing]

What they’re saying is that they’re removing this process, right?

Not necessarily, I read it more as adding an extra step on top of that process.

If that's the case, wouldn't it conflict with the data accumulated in my brain

That's indeed the question: is that good, or not? It's known the shape of the ear (both outer ear and inner ear) has certain functionality, attenuating and boosting specific parts of the spectrum plus doing things in the time domain as well (IIRC). They're saying they are correcting for suboptimal things there. Again: I'm not convinced it's a fundamentally wrong idea, but also won't take it for granted without measurements or controlled tests. Which might be hard, but not impossible, to do correctly, but of which there seem to be no trace either.

Thinking about this somewhat further: many animals have super specific ear shapes. Cats and bats just to name something. What they are saying is: look all these years of evolution made something but it could be better so we are enhancing it. With one generic device.

 

[audio_tony]

Back in 2020 I tried the Flare audio "Calmer" and they were uncomfortable in my ears and made no difference whatsoever (apart from the discomfort lol).

I returned them and got a refund.

 

[LIΟN]

That's indeed the question: is that good, or not? It's known the shape of the ear (both outer ear and inner ear) has certain functionality, attenuating and boosting specific parts of the spectrum plus doing things in the time domain as well (IIRC). They're saying they are correcting for suboptimal things there. Again: I'm not convinced it's a fundamentally wrong idea, but also won't take it for granted without measurements or controlled tests. Which might be hard, but not impossible, to do correctly, but of which there seem to be no trace either.

I'm also currently searching for data on that from AES and Google, but it seems difficult to find anything except related to funding.

It would have been more interesting if there had been data showing their measurements and how improvements were made in each time domain regarding their claim of removing 21dB or correct or remove HRTF things.
I have the correct HRIR and BRIR that reflect my physical characteristics, from near to far distances, and that aligns with my reality. This is real impulse response from my body and reality. However, I don’t see even this simple data from them, just phrases like 'the artist’s intention' or 'it simply sounds better.' I'm not sure. At least for those who enjoy sound based on psychological effects and science, it doesn't seem to offer much merit.

Back in 2020 I tried the Flare audio "Calmer" and they were uncomfortable in my ears and made no difference whatsoever (apart from the discomfort lol).

I returned them and got a refund.

That’s quite an interesting story. Could you tell me more details? They seemed to be making quite a few experimental attempts.

 

[Berwhale]

If I want to remove HRTF, I can buy 3 pairs of 7Hz Salnote x Crinacle Zero 2 for the same price as these plastic ear snorkels.

 

[audio_tony]

That’s quite an interesting story. Could you tell me more details? They seemed to be making quite a few experimental attempts.

There's not much more to tell... All I can say is that I didn't experience any of the claims that they were making at the time about the product.

 

[Berwhale]

I want ones that do the eyes as well...

 

[Berwhale]

Found some prior art...

 

[LIΟN]

There's not much more to tell... All I can say is that I didn't experience any of the claims that they were making at the time about the product.

Okay...I hope you had a better experience in something else.

If I want to remove HRTF, I can buy 3 pairs of 7Hz Salnote x Crinacle Zero 2 for the same price as these plastic ear snorkels.

Even If we insert the Zero:2 as deep as possible into ourr ear, will be able to achieve cleaner high frequencies. haha