First turntable - any suggestions?

[scottmckinney67]

Just saying 'don't buy one' is hardly offering experience or knowledge. It's a drive-by. You didn't give any reason at all to follow your advice. You think that's really what being helpful looks like? Look at many of the other replies to see what sharing knowledge and experience looks like.

You're entitled to your opinion on what's helpful, just as I am. I was honestly trying to give the poster good advice. Vinyl is over priced snake oil at this point.

 

[BDWoody]

You're entitled to your opinion on what's helpful, just as I am. I was honestly trying to give the poster good advice. Vinyl is over priced snake oil at this point.

Once the OP made it clear he heard you and the general naysayers, but was still planning to get a table for fun, that's a good time to figure you've done your part and move on.
No need to be the ankle biter who won't let go.

 

[MattHooper]

I wonder how it turned out for the OP.

When it comes to advice, as much as I like my vinyl set up, I leave the specific gear advice to others here, many of whom are more technically knowledgeable and experienced with vinyl. I play in the goofier audiophile bracket of gear, so I'm not conversant enough with the lower-priced stuff to make confident recommendations.

 

[Keith_W]

Anyway, let's get back on topic.

Disclaimer first: all of my knowledge on turntables was gleaned from subjectivists and my own personal experience. I do not have any measurements or know of any publications to back any of this up!

Re: turntables, there are many philosophies on the market. Belt drive vs. direct drive vs. "exotic" drive types (e.g. the new Esoteric turntable). Many different types of bearings, including exotic types like air suspension or magnetic suspension. Also many different types of platters - some believe in high mass / high inertia, some in low mass / low inertia. But, if we are talking about a budget of €500, that excludes all the exotic turntables and the typical ones you will find in this price range are direct drive vs. belt drive. Nearly all TT's in this price range are low mass.

Belt drive is typically found in more expensive turntables. This isolates the motor from the platter, and provides isolation from motor vibrations and some damping against motor cogging. Direct drive turntables have more speed stability, torque, instantaneous startup, and are usually cheaper. Belt drive turntables require marginally more maintenance - rubber becomes less elastic over time and may stretch and require re-tensioning or replacement. Direct drive TT's are virtually maintenance-free. You can read more about it here.

A good inexpensive beginner turntable can easily be had for €500 new - examples are Pro-ject turntables especially E1 and T1. Also Rega turntables. There are also many secondhand turntables you could consider and they will easily slip into your price range.

You also need to buy a tonearm and a cartridge. I wouldn't worry about tonearms for now, because most TT's at that price range will have the tonearm included. As for cartridges, you have a choice between moving magnet (MM) or moving coil (MC). MM's are heavier and do not track as well as MC, but they have the advantage of higher output. Nearly all phono stages support MM output. MC's have much lower output. Nearly all high end cartridges are MC. The usual budget recommendation is the Denon DL-103 (MC). New ones cost about €290 so I suggest you look for a secondhand one.

I will offer a rather controversial suggestion: I view turntables as a fun object only, and I do not expect to get high fidelity from it. You can get amazing SQ from a TT, but you have to spend umpteen thousands of € before it even gets close to digital. It's a bit like a Lomo lens that is objectively terrible, but images from it are fun. So I would choose the most fun sounding turntable, objective SQ be hanged.

 

[Martin]

A good inexpensive beginner turntable can easily be had for €500 new - examples are Pro-ject turntables especially E1 and T1.

+1

Pro-ject makes nice stuff. I own a Pro-ject Phono Box RS phono preamplifier. You can get an E1 with a built-in phono preamp well under your budget or splurge and get an E1/T1 with an phono preamp.

Martin

 

[mike70]

I have one Technics SL-Q2 and is great... you can find a decent one for 200 USD. Nothing today can beat that quality / prize ratio.

That TT is working since 1981 only with 2 drops of Technics oil in the spindle every 4 years. Nothing more ... no speed variations, stretched belts, etc.

The newer and expensive Technics are auto lubricant ... so ... spectacular, but not for beginners.

 

[AaronJ]

You're entitled to your opinion on what's helpful, just as I am. I was honestly trying to give the poster good advice. Vinyl is over priced snake oil at this point.

Oy, the entitled-to-an-opinion argument. You answered a question that wasn’t asked with bogus advise.

 

[computer-audiophile]

It's not difficult at all. Have I been disrespectful by offering what I think is solid advice when it comes to the best sound for the money? Am I not allowed to attempt to help folks?

This was not the question. Please read post #1.

 

[Biblob]

I wonder how it turned out for the OP.

When it comes to advice, as much as I like my vinyl set up, I leave the specific gear advice to others here, many of whom are more technically knowledgeable and experienced with vinyl. I play in the goofier audiophile bracket of gear, so I'm not conversant enough with the lower-priced stuff to make confident recommendations.

Still haven't bought anything! In between houses so, maybe (and hopefully) soon!

 

[Purité Audio]

Save your money and don’t bother.
Keith

 

[computer-audiophile]

Save your money and don’t bother.
Keith

While it is true that digital audio systems are often more affordable and offer convenient features such as wireless streaming, the decision to buy a record player ultimately comes down to personal preference and a desire for a certain listening experience. It is not simply a matter of "high culture" but rather a matter of individual taste and appreciation for the unique qualities of vinyl.

 

[Purité Audio]

Unless you already have a large collection of records it seems to me rather futile purely a passing affectation.
‘If you have records already different matter, but then you probably already have one !
Keith

 

[computer-audiophile]

If you have records already different matter, but then you probably already have one !

Most of the time I have more than one.

 

[MattHooper]

Unless you already have a large collection of records it seems to me rather futile purely a passing affectation.
‘If you have records already different matter, but then you probably already have one !
Keith

So you are having trouble understanding other people, who like things you don't.

I mean, a non-audiophile could look at the extremely expensive gear you sell and say: "It's ridiculous for anyone to spend that money when you can play
back music on far less expensive systems." Throwing that type of money around must then be a simple ego-pleasing affectation. Non-audiophiles often think this of audiophiles.

Would that characterization be accurate of you and your clients? Or...would that just be a simple failure to understand the preferences and goals of you and the people you serve?

I'm at around 8 years of having a great time spinning vinyl. Not sure how many years I have to enjoy it until it's not a "passing affectation."

 

[computer-audiophile]

I'm at around 8 years of having a great time spinning vinyl. Not sure how many years I have to enjoy it until it's not a "passing affectation."

I am very open to new technology and I also use it. Nevertheless, I always have had record players for 60 years now. Recently I bought another new Technics DD because I was fascinated by the new ironless motor. Maybe this one will be my last record player.

 

[MattHooper]

Still haven't bought anything! In between houses so, maybe (and hopefully) soon!

Nice to see you back! Having a roof over your head is overrated...my advice is to spend that money on one of these instead of the house:

Home

How much do you love your vinyl collection? We've rounded-up a selection of the world’s most expensive turntables, and they're quite a sight...

www.whathifi.com

You'll be the hippest homeless person on the block!

I'm generally aware of the lower budget turntables that people are buying and which ones seem to get good notices. But I haven't tested any myself, so I'm afraid I have no recommendation.

But out of curiosity: How much do you care about aesthetics? Are you fine with the looks of an audio-technica or a Technics turntable? Or do you prefer a nice looking wood finish and minimalist design, like the Fluance turntables, Project? Or a cool lookin' Rega Planar 1?

It can obviously be a bit daunting getting in to something new like this. On one hand you don't want to commit a lot of money to a format that you might not play a lot, or don't expect good sound from. On the other hand, if you are here you are likely some level of audiophile and want whatever you play to sound good.

I was lucky in that I inherited a nice old micro seiki turntable and cartridge from my father-in-law. Records immediately sounded really good. If they hadn't sounded really pleasing to me, I would not have bothered going further with vinyl. Even if I'd just stayed with that turntable, vinyl would have been a really nice
alternative to my digital music. But, being an audiophile, I went down the rabbit hole and upgraded to a better turntable and I was fine with that expense, as it further increased my enjoyment of vinyl sound quality, to the point I listen to more vinyl now than I do my digital sources. I'd never advise someone to throw a lot of money at a turntable, though, particularly when starting out for obvious reasons.

Also, like you, I'm not one to "collect" for the sake of collecting. I buy vinyl to play it.

I'm curious to hear about your experience once you've set up the turntable of your choice.

 

[Angsty]

I purchased my first turntable in 25 years in 2016. I have upgraded several components since then and buy new vinyl regularly.

I say this to illustrate that not everyone thinks vinyl is a waste of time and money, even though I also have a full set of digital components.

I like the tangibility of vinyl and the slight differences in reproduction across various component models and album releases. It’s a lot more fun than the uniform nature of digital, even if it is not technically superior by the measurements.

 

[JeremyFife]

Most of the time I have more than one.

View attachment 278883

Slightly off-topic, but that Caroline Shaw album is lovely. I didn't get it on vinyl but now I'm wishing I had - just for the label

 

[MattHooper]

I like the tangibility of vinyl and the slight differences in reproduction across various component models and album releases. It’s a lot more fun than the uniform nature of digital, even if it is not technically superior by the measurements.

Yeah, it's more hands-on for someone who likes that. I know people who don't like driving and look forward to fully automated cars, with AI taking the wheel so they can be relieved of the duty of driving (and choose to read or whatever). Whereas of course other people - "drivers" - get something quite satisfying out of driving itself (and how cars work). There will be people who still choose manually driven cars well in to whenever self-driving cars become popular. Maybe they'll have a self-driving car for some use, and a manual car for when they want the driving experience. Same with people who still like the hands-on of vinyl even though we can all now flick through endless choices on our phones, or stream things through a black box.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Yeah, it's more hands-on for someone who likes that. I know people who don't like driving and look forward to fully automated cars, with AI taking the wheel so they can be relieved of the duty of driving (and choose to read or whatever). Whereas of course other people - "drivers" - get something quite satisfying out of driving itself (and how cars work). There will be people who still choose manually driven cars well in to whenever self-driving cars become popular. Maybe they'll have a self-driving car for some use, and a manual car for when they want the driving experience. Same with people who still like the hands-on of vinyl even though we can all now flick through endless choices on our phones, or stream things through a black box.

Very good analogy - I like it!