First TT build. SL1200MK5 / 2M Blue / Phono? / Acrylic? and more...

[andrewskaterrr]

Hey guys, new to the forum, but over the last week I've been reading the great measurement reviews and discussions on Phono Preamps, and the the like. I'd like to apologize for this long post, but I need to explain a lot. I figured it would be better to ask my questions in one post rather than making multiple. I'll try to give give a short backstory and explain where I'm at in my journey.
I'm not huge into vinyl but collect LPs of my favorite Death Metal bands, some Jazz, classical, and other random genres I find in the bargain bin for fun. Have a crappy old Pioneer PL-05 that the tray doesn't work (have to pull it out). Wanted something above commercial crap and upgradable, even though I don't plan to upgrade it. After a lot of research I bought a near mint SL1200 MK5 in the USA for $654 shipped to my door. I bought an Ortofon SH-4 and 2M Blue (both still unopened and returnable), because the 2Ms are pretty neutral and the Red can have treble breakup. I'm stuck on choosing a Phono preamp. The TT came with no platter mat so I need one, and I want an acrylic one to add weight for dampening etc. She Here's my questions:

Set Up:
Technics SL-1200 MK5
???Acrylic Platter???
Ortofon SH-4 Headshell
Ortofon 2M Blue
???Preamp???
???~30ft RCA Wire???
Marantz SR5010 Receiver
JBL Studio 590s


1. Phono Preamp:
I have a Technolink (TEC) TC-760LC and at max volume on the MC 100ohm setting, the noise floor is lower than I can hear from my seat with no hum. I know it's budget and want to upgrade to not hinder the sound of my new setup. I kept seeing the $130 Schiit Mani recommended, but saw the ASR review here and that scared me with the potential power limiting issues. The $150 refurb NAD PP4 has USB (which I want) but is worse than the $130 refurb NAD PP2e, and apparently they die overtime?? The ASR review said the $180 Cambridge Audio Alva SOLO is bad compared to the $300 Cambridge Audio Alva DUO, so that's out. I don't reeeaaally want to spend $300 on a DUO since it costs more than my 2M Blue, especially with it missing selectable Input Impedance. The $250 Vincent PHO-8 and $300 MoFi StudioPhono didn't review well either here on ASR. I feel like nothing is great here under $300 Mani would be great if, from what I understand, it had better caps and power supply. Having bought the 2M Blue, I'm not sure how much of a benefit I will get spending more $ on a preamp though, like going from a Mani to a DUO....

I came across this and really like it ~$160 Muffsy PP-4 Kit + case/psu. Currently this is in the lead if it really is better than the Mani, but I can't find any reviews with measurements of it. Does anyone have any info on this one?
Is the PP-4 the best performance for the money? Do you have any other Preamp recommendations that measure better than the Mani/PP-4 for around the same price?
- Muffsy PP-4 Kit: https://www.tindie.com/products/skrodahl/muffsy-phono-preamp-kit/
- Case for PP-4: https://www.ebay.com/itm/112548068867
- For the PSU it says the range is 15-18VAC and he linked 500mah adapters. Would it be beneficial to get 18VAC 2000mah to allow for more overhead and maybe lower distortion? I don't know much about electrical components to know about capacitor quality, how to decrease distortion, etc.
- 18VAC 2000mah: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E4WKH2Q/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
- 16VAC 1000mah: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B8865BG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
If this is the way people think I should go, then what cheap part swaps/mods can I do while building it to improve performance? I know they have a Burr-Brown OPA2134PA option but I don't know what the difference would be. Would buying better capacitors help? I'm a total noob when it comes to this, but if I can spend another $10 and get even better sound, then it'd be worth it.


2. Platter Mat:
Since I need a mat, I'd like to just drop an acrylic mat on top of the stock SL1200 MK5 Platter. My 2M Blue is 18mm, and the SL1200 MK5 manual says I would be at the 1 Height Position (0-6) giving me 5mm of addition elevation. So if I take the stock rubber mat (that I don't have) height of 3mm, and add 5mm, I get a max height of 8mm possible for an acrylic mat. I'm looking for an Outer Diameter of 298mm, so that it will cover the entire top of the platter (I measured 298mm for the SL1200 MK5's Silver Ring OD).
I want a White/Black build so I want an all black acrylic platter to go with the White Faceplate I ordered already. The only reasonably priced one I can find is the Elusive Audio AcrySS Acrylic Turntable Platter Mats 5mm/298mm and I guess the real manufacture is Tizo Acryl? What's your opinion on going with these? Should I get a felt mat for underneath? I've read that people use double stick tape for acrylic-to-platter set ups so it won't slip, but I don't think that would be necessary with all of the weight and a direct drive. Plus the platter then would be standing on tape and not contacting the platter aka less surface area contact (or maybe that's a good thing to help isolate from motor noise??).
- Faceplate: https://qualityelectronics.net/face-plate-for-technics-sl1200-mk5-m3d-sl1210-mk5-white.html
- Elusive Audio Mat: https://www.elusiveaudio.co/store/p6/AcrySS_Platter_Mat.html or https://www.ebay.com/itm/223094451624
- Looks like this is the manufacture: http://www.acrylteller.com/epages/e...R&FacetRange_ListPrice=&FacetRange_ListPrice=


3. RCA Wire:
I have the JBL Studio 590s + Marantz SR5010 Receiver up front with the TV, and my TT will be in the back of the room (I'll be getting JBL Studio 570 or 580s to replace the rears soon ). I'll need 30-35ft of cable. I don't want to drill big holes in the floor for coax cable RCAs, so I want to keep the cables from the Phono Preamp to the Receiver thin, yet shielded. For EMI testing I soldered some cheapo RCA leads to some 24awg cable that I have over 200ft of. They are UNSHIELDED but like I said above, I don't hear any EMI issues currently, even with them bunched up around my router and Marantz' power cables. I'm half tempted to just run that under the floor and call it a day, but I feel like I may lose out on some quality from not having low pF shielded cables. If you have any recommendations for thin, shielded, bare cable that I can easily solder ends to, or if you have any other ideas, please let me know.


4. Other Upgrades:
Feet: I read you can get better ones but are they worth it? I have Felt Furniture Protectors that I can stick to the feet to help reduce vibrations and surface area.
Tone Arm Rewire: The article OP said the MK5s didn't suffer from the corrosion issue that the previous models did. I could see lower capacitance cables being potentially better, but idk if it would be worth it. https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/239122-sl-1200-tonearm-rewire.html
Dust Cover: Looking for an aftermarket cover.
Tone Arm: I'm guessing this is in the $300+ range, so it's not on my radar.


5. Tools:
Bubble Level: I got a cheap $5 one from the local shop.
Scale: I ordered the Riverstone Audio Turntable Scale.
Weight: Still looking for a record weight that's black and minimalistic.
VTA Azimuth Gauge: worth it? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0771Z3XMH/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3DXW0NUYLHI2J&psc=1
Turntable Cartridge Alignment Protractor Mat: worth it? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08227CZPG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A2V0R2F5WJD10N&psc=1
Audio Test LP? worth it?
Any other tools you suggest?

If you have any recommendations please let me know. Thanks for any help!!

 

[anmpr1]

I don't mean to come off like a crank, so don't misunderstand. But if you are asking these sorts of questions about a record player, and what you should do to make it better, you will probably never be satisfied with whatever you do.

After a lifetime listening to records, my criteria for a phono stage is--> if I turn up the volume with nothing playing, do I get objectionable hum and/or hiss? If not, I don't worry about it because I've done about all I need to do. All that other stuff is pretty much 'flip a coin'.

 

[BDWoody]

Hey guys, new to the forum, but over the last week I've been reading the great measurement reviews and discussions on Phono Preamps, and the the like.

Welcome!

Turntables can definitely be fun, so I hope it turns out that way for you! Under the best of conditions, it will have times of outrageous levels of frustration, so be prepared...

I'm a fan of the Parks Puffin as a phono pre. Not sure of your budget, but might be worth checking out.

As far as the rest, I really don't know. I enjoy my turntables, but haven't really tried to 'tweak' any of them beyond spending way more time than I expected to align cartridges.

One nice thing about the Puffin is that with either of the digital options, you can run digital (toslink or coax) across the room with less worry.

Good luck! That table should give you a good platform to work with.

 

[Phorize]

You haven’t mentioned how you clean them-low hanging fruit and all that.

 

[somebodyelse]

I think the Puffin is breaking the budget with the base model at $489, and more (or some diy) for the digital output, but it does have some interesting features you probably won't find anywhere else.

IIRC the Solo wasn't bad, just not as good as the Duo. We've no idea how the Muffsy compares. It looks like it has internal regulators (or is that an optional extra?) so a bigger transformer probably won't make a difference. It's a pity none of them have balanced outputs - your long cable run makes ground loop issues somewhat more likely. Mogami 2964 or 2965 should be a decent, no nonsense coax with relatively low capacitance.

Alignment protractors can be downloaded and printed - there's a wealth of information at vinylengine.com
A test record will be useful/necessary if you want to do things like setting the cartridge loading based on measurement of frequency response.

Funk do an Achromat model specifically for the SL1200, as well as spring feet. I think Origin Live's mat uses constrained layer damping. Whether either is an improvement over the stock rubber mat I couldn't say.

 

[andrewskaterrr]

I don't mean to come off like a crank, so don't misunderstand. But if you are asking these sorts of questions about a record player, and what you should do to make it better, you will probably never be satisfied with whatever you do.

After a lifetime listening to records, my criteria for a phono stage is--> if I turn up the volume with nothing playing, do I get objectionable hum and/or hiss? If not, I don't worry about it because I've done about all I need to do. All that other stuff is pretty much 'flip a coin'.

It's not that, it's just that I like to do my research and try to get the best I can for my money, so I don't have to spend more money down the road fixing/upgrading what I previously bought. I upped my budget from $300 to over $1000 because I was hearing noticeable differences between tables and cartridges. My hope is that I can buy a TT once and be done forever, while having good sound.

 

[andrewskaterrr]

Welcome!

Turntables can definitely be fun, so I hope it turns out that way for you! Under the best of conditions, it will have times of outrageous levels of frustration, so be prepared...

I'm a fan of the Parks Puffin as a phono pre. Not sure of your budget, but might be worth checking out.

As far as the rest, I really don't know. I enjoy my turntables, but haven't really tried to 'tweak' any of them beyond spending way more time than I expected to align cartridges.

One nice thing about the Puffin is that with either of the digital options, you can run digital (toslink or coax) across the room with less worry.

Good luck! That table should give you a good platform to work with.

Thanks for the suggestion, but while I can afford that, I don't want to haha. $300 is the max I really want to spend.

 

[andrewskaterrr]

You haven’t mentioned how you clean them-low hanging fruit and all that.

What? That's a pretty vague statement when my post has a lot of information.

 

[renevoorburg]

Pro-Ject Phono Box

 

[somebodyelse]

What? That's a pretty vague statement when my post has a lot of information.

A lot of info on your system, but not on how you clean your records - vinyl playback isn't just a rabbit hole, it's a whole branching warren! If you're always buying new then it probably won't be so much of an issue, but a lot of used records will benefit enormously from cleaning.

 

[andrewskaterrr]

I think the Puffin is breaking the budget with the base model at $489, and more (or some diy) for the digital output, but it does have some interesting features you probably won't find anywhere else.

IIRC the Solo wasn't bad, just not as good as the Duo. We've no idea how the Muffsy compares. It looks like it has internal regulators (or is that an optional extra?) so a bigger transformer probably won't make a difference. It's a pity none of them have balanced outputs - your long cable run makes ground loop issues somewhat more likely. Mogami 2964 or 2965 should be a decent, no nonsense coax with relatively low capacitance.

Alignment protractors can be downloaded and printed - there's a wealth of information at vinylengine.com
A test record will be useful/necessary if you want to do things like setting the cartridge loading based on measurement of frequency response.

Funk do an Achromat model specifically for the SL1200, as well as spring feet. I think Origin Live's mat uses constrained layer damping. Whether either is an improvement over the stock rubber mat I couldn't say.

Ya but my receiver doesn't have balanced inputs so it wouldn't really help me . I had seen the Mogami and some other cables when I was researching the cables used in the BlueJeans shielding type test. With my Unshielded 24awg Brand RCA wire I haven't heard any notable interference as it is dead silent even with my ears up to the 590s, so I'm wondering if I might be safe where I'm putting it. But I'm wondering if anyone knows of some two conductor wire similar to the wire in my pic, but that is shielded. Basically I'm temped to buy a 40ft RCA cable and cut the ends off and use that. Coax cable is just too big for me. I'm really trying to avoid drilling big holes in the floor, even though it would be covered up by carpet.
IDK I'll keep thinking about it lol.

I originally was going to use the VinylEngine protractors etc, but I'm afraid of the flimsy paper and DIY hole being offset and causing measurement issues. Eh maybe I'll just save the money and use them anyways haha.

I saw the Acrhomats mentioned around, I love the look. I might consider this.

Thanks for the help!

 

[andrewskaterrr]

A lot of info on your system, but not on how you clean your records - vinyl playback isn't just a rabbit hole, it's a whole branching warren! If you're always buying new then it probably won't be so much of an issue, but a lot of used records will benefit enormously from cleaning.

I'm still working on that. Years ago I bought the generic wooden RCA brush that a lot of companies also make/resell. I hate the curve it has, so I want a full size flat brush. I haven't seen much info on brushes but I'm thinking to get this set: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08PNYYRS...colid=M2BU19VUHABK&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
For DEEP cleaning I'm debating buying a Spin Clean, but I don't have that many records. The local shop has a Okkie Nokki and they'll clean them for you for $1, so I'm considering just doing that. I have like 50 old records that I got from my college and dirty records I picked up used, so I definitely need a way to clean them.

 

[Phorize]

What? That's a pretty vague statement when my post has a lot of information.

I’m sorry if you found the above prosaic. Your post contains a lot of information, but none relating to how you will clean the records. I described this as low hanging fruit because it can be a cheap and effective way of improving the sound of a record. I suggest the disco anti stat as although not as good a vacuum cleaner it gets the job done for reasonable cost. Others may recommend other devices. I personally use a moth RCM but that’s a bigger investment.

 

[andrewskaterrr]

I’m sorry if you found the above prosaic. Your post contains a lot of information, but none relating to how you will clean the records. I described this as low hanging fruit because it can be a cheap and effective way of improving the sound of a record. I suggest the disco anti stat as although not as good a vacuum cleaner it gets the job done for reasonable cost. Others may recommend other devices. I personally use a moth RCM but that’s a bigger investment.

I forgot to add that part, I was more focused on the TT set up itself. I consider cleaning the records separate from the technical details like Preamp performance. See my last comment that talks about my cleaning debate.

 

[andrewskaterrr]

UPDATE: The Muffsy came back in stock this morning. There's 2 left. I may go ahead and order it because I'm going to guess (HOPE) it's better than the Schiit Mani. If anything it will be a fun first time project. I've never built something like this before and will hopefully be my first step into building more DIY kits.

If it doesn't cost too much, I may even send it in to Amirm to test if he's interested.

 

[Rock Rabbit]

It seems you're building a very good system, IMHO try a better cartridge:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uncoloured-phono-cartridges.16020/
Is very long now, so look for MP-500 or V540ml

 

[somebodyelse]

Ya but my receiver doesn't have balanced inputs so it wouldn't really help me . I had seen the Mogami and some other cables when I was researching the cables used in the BlueJeans shielding type test. With my Unshielded 24awg Brand RCA wire I haven't heard any notable interference as it is dead silent even with my ears up to the 590s, so I'm wondering if I might be safe where I'm putting it. But I'm wondering if anyone knows of some two conductor wire similar to the wire in my pic, but that is shielded. Basically I'm temped to buy a 40ft RCA cable and cut the ends off and use that. Coax cable is just too big for me. I'm really trying to avoid drilling big holes in the floor, even though it would be covered up by carpet.
IDK I'll keep thinking about it lol.

You could try a flat network cable - multiple twisted pairs, STP would have an overall shield. You can use the spare pairs to reduce the ground resistance.

I originally was going to use the VinylEngine protractors etc, but I'm afraid of the flimsy paper and DIY hole being offset and causing measurement issues. Eh maybe I'll just save the money and use them anyways haha.

Know anyone with a laminator? If you don't have a 9/32" hole punch you can cut a triangle with a steel rule and a sharp knife, or a V-notch with scissors. The HiFi News test record includes one with 3 alignment methods too.

 

[andrewskaterrr]

It seems you're building a very good system, IMHO try a better cartridge:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uncoloured-phono-cartridges.16020/
Is very long now, so look for MP-500 or V540ml

Thanks, the MP-500 is too expensive, and I was debating between the Blue and the MP-110, but the 110 colored more. I saw the VM540ml mentioned but never checked it out. Looking at it now, people say it's better than the 2M Blue. I may return them (they're unopened and from Amazon) and order that.

 

[andrewskaterrr]

You could try a flat network cable - multiple twisted pairs, STP would have an overall shield. You can use the spare pairs to reduce the ground resistance.

Know anyone with a laminator? If you don't have a 9/32" hole punch you can cut a triangle with a steel rule and a sharp knife, or a V-notch with scissors. The HiFi News test record includes one with 3 alignment methods too.

I had thought about using ethernet but I saw somewhere that it's not great, BUT it's probably better than no shielding. I have a crimper and everything I need except new cable. I may try this.

Unfortunately I don't know anyone with a laminator

 

[Rock Rabbit]

Thanks, the MP-500 is too expensive, and I was debating between the Blue and the MP-110, but the 110 colored more. I saw the VM540ml mentioned but never checked it out. Looking at it now, people say it's better than the 2M Blue. I may return them (they're unopened and from Amazon) and order that.

I have the MP-110 and don't recommend it, unless for very easy to track grooves or noisy discs, IMHO the 540 is even better than Bronze....but better look more opinions in the "uncolored cartridge" link, there's even a digital take with the 540 ;-)
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...uncoloured-phono-cartridges.16020/post-622298